Cold Water vs. Warm Water Regulator Purchasing Dilemma

[=ize]

Being new to the board, thanks in advance for any help!

So I'm purchasing a regulator for the first time for use in water temps ranging from the low to mid-50's thru 80's F. As near as I can tell, there is no temperature standard/threshold among manufactures where it becomes recommended to purchase a regulator suitable for cold water use. Through some additional research, it appears that low 50's is right on the bubble (pun intended) where a regulator suitable for cold water becomes necessary.

My question is this...Are there any drawbacks (other than the obvious price increase) to purchasing a regulator (first and second stage) suitable for cold water use but also using it in warmer waters? Are there any performance issues that would prevent a sealed 1st stage and metal internals/heat sink 2nd stage from performing well in warmer water temps? I'm wondering to be on the safe side, if I should purchase a regulator (both first and second stages) suitable for cold water use based upon the water temps I'm anticipating diving in (listed above) rather than rolling the dice and purchasing a setup that may or may not perform well in the lower water temp range?

Hope that makes sense and thanks again for any help!

 

[buddhasummer]

No drawbacks at all. Some might say the addition of environmental sealing is a plus as it doesn't allow any water or contaminants into the first stage, they also require less fastidious after dive care. Personally most of my regs are sealed diaphragms which are used in both warm and cold water. A sealed reg is suitable for all conditions, an unsealed reg may not be so.

 

[=ize]

Makes sense. Thanks very much for the reply! I appreciate it!!

 

[elmo]

No drawbacks to using a sealed reg in warm water. But mid 50s F isn't really all that cold. Yes, you'll want a drysuit to be comfortable, but "cold" for a regulator means cold enough to freeze and cause a free-flow you can't stop. You should be ok at 55F/13C.
Having said that, I dive with mk17 first stages (sealed diaphragm) in similar temperatures, and want for nothing else. Good regs are good regs.

 

[Centrals]

For Apeks regs 10C is the cut off temp for their non-sealed regs.
A sealed Apeks eg. DS4 is not that much more expensive than its non sealed version US4. And literally require no effort to clean it after a dive. While the US4 would require quite a tedious flushing and drying on the spring chamber.

 

[diversteve]

here is no temperature standard/threshold among manufactures

Actually there's at least 2 - EN250 or Norsok U-101. Apeks has a general info page about it.
Safety | About Apeks | Technically Inspired

 

[tbone1004]

Actually there's at least 2 - EN250 or Norsok U-101. Apeks has a general info page about it.
Safety | About Apeks | Technically Inspired

Those are the two that most manufacturers use however there are a few regs that will pass EN250 at 10C but aren't really rated for ice-diving. The EN250 test is also passable by unsealed regs *Scubapro MK25*, and the Norsok test which is downright brutal is actually passable by an unsealed reg as well *Poseidon MK3*.
Apeks has 3/4 of the passing regs with the Tek3, XTX50, and XTX200 *note the second stages are all the same, and the first stages are also basically the same so I really consider it one regulator with variations on a theme*, Poseidon has the other one.

 

[2airishuman]

Being new to the board, thanks in advance for any help!

Welcome

So I'm purchasing a regulator for the first time for use in water temps ranging from the low to mid-50's thru 80's F. As near as I can tell, there is no temperature standard/threshold among manufactures where it becomes recommended to purchase a regulator suitable for cold water use. Through some additional research, it appears that low 50's is right on the bubble (pun intended) where a regulator suitable for cold water becomes necessary.

The actual extent of freezup problems depends on a wide variety of factors. Fresh water, cold weather at the surface, HP tanks, deeper dives, longer dives, and a high air consumption rate all contribute to freezeup.

My question is this...Are there any drawbacks (other than the obvious price increase) to purchasing a regulator (first and second stage) suitable for cold water use but also using it in warmer waters? Are there any performance issues that would prevent a sealed 1st stage and metal internals/heat sink 2nd stage from performing well in warmer water temps?

There are tradeoffs which vary depending on how the regulator is sealed and what (if anything) has been done to the 2nd stage.

1st stages that are sealed using silicone fluid and a secondary diaphragm, like the Conshelf Supremes that I dive, have the drawback that they are messy to service so some shops charge a few bucks more. Most of them must be disassembled to adjust the IP.

1st stage that are sealed using a dry chamber with a plastic piston transferring pressure between the primary and secondary diaphragm, which is most of them, have a slightly less stable IP and, at least in theory, more parts to fail. They too must be disassembled to adjust the IP.

As for 2nd stages, typically, metal parts are heavier and the regs are more negatively buoyant. I dive all-metal 2nd stages and don't find their weight to be a problem.

I'm wondering to be on the safe side, if I should purchase a regulator (both first and second stages) suitable for cold water use based upon the water temps I'm anticipating diving in (listed above) rather than rolling the dice and purchasing a setup that may or may not perform well in the lower water temp range?

It's not so much a performance difference as a question of whether or not the regs are going to freeflow under adverse conditions.

On a cold water dive, which for me means colder than 40 degrees, I'm going to be prepared for a freeflow to occur at any time even though my 1st stages are sealed and my 2nd stages are metal. Typically that means I'm diving a twinset. That's my approach. I make quite a few dives like that, and though I've never actually had a freeflow, I'm not going to be surprised when I get one. Sealing the regs and using metal 2nds does not provide a guarantee that there will be no freeflows, it just removes some possible causes.

More broadly, to dive safely you have to be prepared for a reg failure at any point on any dive.

I'm not sure that getting sealed regs is going to make your diving materially safer, but the choice is yours.

 

[Bob DBF]

I've been using Sherwood regs with the dry bleed system, keeps the 1st sealed by maintaining an air bubble in the reg instead of lube, for decades in low 50's water and down to the mid to high 40's regularly, without any issues.

Since the tendency on the board is towards high end tech regs, the Sherwood's get skipped over even though they are good solid regs and include environmental sealing without the drawbacks of lube.


Bob

 

[ams511]

I've been using Sherwood regs with the dry bleed system, keeps the 1st sealed by maintaining an air bubble in the reg instead of lube, for decades in low 50's water and down to the mid to high 40's regularly, without any issues.

Since the tendency on the board is towards high end tech regs, the Sherwood's get skipped over even though they are good solid regs and include environmental sealing without the drawbacks of lube.


Bob

I read an article on ice diving from a NOAA symposium. They mentioned the Sherwood regulators and said basically that each version needs to be tested individually. Your old versions may work fine but the newer versions may not. Changes in the shape and design change cold water performance. If I remember correctly, they were using a modified Maximus running a lower IP and using some parts swapped from the Blizzard.