Cold water frozen exhaust/inflator valves

[Leo53214]

I had a bad experience recently cold water diving and thought I would put it out there to get some advice from others.

The water was about 37* surface temperature. I set up my tank (1st dive with my new Worthington HP100, regular 02 fill), BCD, regulators and transmitter before I even took it out of my truck. I did not open the tank valve until just before getting into the water (mistake?). It was a good 45 minute boat ride to the wreck. I did shoot a little air in my Bc and drysuit before jumping in the water just to stay buoyant, which I have since been told wasn't a good idea. So on to what actually happened....

I was weighted a tad light (maybe 2lbs) due to adjusting for my new tank. I did breathe off my regulator at the surface to get to the mooring line. During decent I found that both my inflation hoses (Bc and drysuit) were frozen and I could not get any air in either. I made the slowest decent possible and after struggling for several minutes (and using nearly 1000psi) at 126 feet on the bottom of the lake I got some air in my Bc and found proper buoyancy. Hoping (fools favorite word) that things would come up to temperature during the dive, my buddy and I enjoyed exploring the wreck of the Milwaukee Car Ferry. When I got to 750psi (way too soon!) I motioned to my buddy to start our ascent. We headed up the mooring line when I found my exhaust valves (again on Bc and drysuit) were not working. I grabbed onto my buddy and attempted to pull my Bc lower exhaust valve to no avail. I made an emergency ascent, not able to manage any safety stop at all, and ended up at the surface with almost no air left.

Shaken but sane I made it back to the boat. As a precaution I sat on oxygen for 45minutes and skipped the second dive. Two days later and I am ok, but I really want to do some preventative research to avoid such a situation in the future. Living in Wisconsin most of our diving is cold water, though this is the first signifigant problem I have ever had with freezing, even on ice dives.

Final thoughts: I did some reading and several people recommend not using your regs or inflators until in the water and your first stage has had a couple minutes to meet water temperature. This makes sense but I am wondering when you have to jump off of the boat, how do you stay buoyant and/or breathe until you are ready to descend?

Leo in WI

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Try orally inflating your BCD next time.

As for your description of the dive ... there is something in there that concerns me. Not trying to be critical here, but have you considered that ... given you skipped your safety stop and still ended up on the surface with almost no air at all ... that perhaps you should have left the bottom with a bit more gas in your tank? I mean ... what were you planning to breathe while doing your safety stop?

And what were you planning to do if your buddy had suddenly needed air? Or did the two of you decide that you were each on your own for that?

Again, not trying to criticize here ... but there's more to that dive than just your regs to think about.

Some info that you might find helpful ... NWGratefulDiver.com

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[shoredivr]

During decent I found that both my inflation hoses (Bc and drysuit) were frozen and I could not get any air in either. I made the slowest decent possible and after struggling for several minutes (and using nearly 1000psi) at 126 feet on the bottom of the lake I got some air in my Bc and found proper buoyancy.

I'm having a difficult time understanding how you could function in a drysuit that had the suit squeeze of 126 ft with no added gas in the suit...

I dive in a trilaminate suit with undergarment, and without adding any gas, I'm thinking that suit squeeze at 126 ft would make it difficult for me to raise my arms. Maybe a crushed neoprene drysuit makes this no problem.

To answer part of your questions, I avoid breathing off the reg at the surface to avoid freeze-ups. Plus an environmentally sealed reg might help.

 

[Leo53214]

"Try orally inflating your BCD next time" - what an obvious and great suggestion! Thank you for throwing this suggestion to me. Can't say why I didn't think of it.

"As for your description of the dive ... there is something in there that concerns me. Not trying to be critical here, but have you considered that ... given you skipped your safety stop and still ended up on the surface with almost no air at all ... that perhaps you should have left the bottom with a bit more gas in your tank? I mean ... what were you planning to breathe while doing your safety stop?"

Agreed. And you are not being critical- you're being logical. Truth be told as soon as I found a problem with any of my equipment I should have called the dive. It was stupid, especially for a rescue diver who should certainly know better, for me to have put myself in that situation in the first place. My "reason" (though clearly a very lame one) was not wanting to ruin the dive for my dive buddy, who I had just met that day and drove up from Chicago. I remember reading about "peer pressure" being one cause of dive accidents in a dive class early on and thinking how silly that was. Now I realise the "pressure" doesn't have to come from someone else- it can simply come from your personal desire not to disappoint someone else. Foolish; but now I see it.

As for the amount of air I came up with, had I not been breathing like a madman trying to get anything to vent exhaust I should have ended with about 300psi. When I long-strided into the water my buddy had a 30cf pony attached. When I looked for it before we started our ascent he had obviously removed it before jumping in. When I asked him why he did not have an explanation. But I do not blame him- I should have brought my own pony or spare air. Sitting on the boat they are not much help to anyone. (Also my Uwatec locked on "SOS" when I hit the surface, so I could have had some air in my tank but had no way to know one way or the other)

"And what were you planning to do if your buddy had suddenly needed air? Or did the two of you decide that you were each on your own for that? Again, not trying to criticize here ... but there's more to that dive than just your regs to think about."

I couldn't agree more. A million dollar regulator will not save you if you don't use common sense. I feel I definately failed to use it in this scenario. I do not intend to let that happen again. And thank you very much for the website and insight.

~Leo in WI

 

[Leo53214]

"I'm having a difficult time understanding how you could function in a drysuit that had the suit squeeze of 126 ft with no added gas in the suit... I dive in a trilaminate suit with undergarment, and without adding any gas, I'm thinking that suit squeeze at 126 ft would make it difficult for me to raise my arms. Maybe a crushed neoprene drysuit makes this no problem."

I use a crushed neoprene DUI, had a very heavy undergarment on and was not wearing dry gloves. I have only experienced suit squeeze one time, and that was with an intentionally empty drysuit to see what it felt like walking into Pearl Lake from shore (and it hurts, and no we're not doing that again) I did have SOME air in my drysuit that I shot in before I entered the water (and now know I shouldn't have done that in the cold because that's likely why the inflator froze up). I did not think it was a signifigant amount but apparently it was enough to get me down comfortably. It is also possible that a small amount (insignifigant) of air did get in while I was attempting to inflate (without luck) all the way down to the bottom. It's truly hard to say.

"I avoid breathing off the reg at the surface to avoid freeze-ups. Plus an environmentally sealed reg might help"

I will definately avoid breathing off the reg at the surface. My MK20 is thermo.

Thanks, Leo

 

[Leo53214]

Just a quick update- my BCD inflator failed again at Pearl Lake (a shallow lake I used to test it) and would not exhaust. I have since thrown the old thing away and bought a new Air2. So I would say the issue was part mechanical, part stupidity and part technique. Again I appreciate the feedback Leo

 

[bleeb]

Since you sound interested in learning from your difficulties, in case you hadn't found it, you may also be interested in the Near Misses and Lessons Learned forum. Lots of people similarly willing to fess up about their problems and letting the rest of us find out what not to do the less painful way.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

If your serious about safety and are in the market for new equipment, I might recommend researching the DIR threads. I wouldn't be too quick to ask questions in the forums but there is a lot of good information on the basic setup at this link: Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers There are many good things that come out of the redundant setup of many of the critical lifesaving components. But above all, equipment aside, your dive buddy should always be aware of your limitations, dive plan, and problems and visa versa.

 

[Web Monkey]

I was weighted a tad light (maybe 2lbs) due to adjusting for my new tank. I did breathe off my regulator at the surface to get to the mooring line. During decent I found that both my inflation hoses (Bc and drysuit) were frozen and I could not get any air in either. I made the slowest decent possible and after struggling for several minutes (and using nearly 1000psi) at 126 feet on the bottom of the lake I got some

I won't even start to guess what you could have done differently. All I'll say is "Congratulations on surviving" and "Don't count on being this lucky again."

This would have been an excellent dive to not go on. Deep and cold with malfunctioning equipment is a bad combination. People regularly die on dives like these in the Great Lakes.

The next time you find yourself with significant problems at the beginning of the dive that you can't easily correct, I'd suggest calling the dive, and finding someplace to have lunch.

Terry

 

[jtivat]

The reason you do not want to pre breath a reg in the cold is because your breath will add moisture. The same is not true with a BC inflator or dry suit. I dive water like this all the time and never have any issue with inflating before a dive. I would suspect moisture in your tank.

Also if you had enough air in your dry suit to not have the living crap squeezed out of you at 120' then your are diving with to much weight. I also use a neoprene suit and there is no way I could do a 50' dive without adding air to it.