Cold Water Free Flows

[skimaster978]

I was at Dutch during this incident and my presumption was that he was indeed a solo diver. There was no one around with any information on the diver and no one signaled for help during the ordeal, it was spotted by a DS watch person.

Also pertaining to the cold factor, it definitely could have played its part. About 2-3 weeks ago, after a weekend of diving, on my last dive, my regulator actually froze up and began free flowing @ 100'. Luckily my dive had just began, I had plenty of air and a buddy to work with, but the temperatures under 70' were similar this weekend (44 F) and could have been a factor but as of now its still unknown.

 

[Herb-alaska]

I was at Dutch during this incident and my presumption was that he was indeed a solo diver. There was no one around with any information on the diver and no one signaled for help during the ordeal, it was spotted by a DS watch person.

Also pertaining to the cold factor, it definitely could have played its part. About 2-3 weeks ago, after a weekend of diving, on my last dive, my regulator actually froze up and began free flowing @ 100'. Luckily my dive had just began, I had plenty of air and a buddy to work with, but the temperatures under 70' were similar this weekend (44 F) and could have been a factor but as of now its still unknown.

This is off topic I know and I apologize but how could a regulator freeze up at 44f. This may be cold for wet diving but is not even enough to get the warm thermo wear out when diving dry. Most of our water at depth is mid 40's year round and I have never had a freeze up.

 

[AWMIII]

I had a regulator freeze the last weekend in April a few years ago at the wooden wreck near the Silver Comet. If memory serves me, it was about 38 degrees. The regulator was a base model that was not suited to cold water diving. The tank was empty by the time I got to 35ft. I had a good buddy with a pony.

 

[finnks]

This is off topic I know and I apologize but how could a regulator freeze up at 44f. This may be cold for wet diving but is not even enough to get the warm thermo wear out when diving dry. Most of our water at depth is mid 40's year round and I have never had a freeze up.

Once upon a time I went diving (wet) in 42F fresh water. The cool water drastically accelerated my breathing rate, but regulator did not freeze up. Shortly thereafter I learned that regs are rated for a temperature range. Went back to the manual for my reg (Mared V-16, not environmentally sealed) and learned that it is only rated for above 48F. Most popular regs are rated for similar temps when not equipped with environmental sealing. I suspect that the rating is based on a fair level of safety under a combination of exacerbating factors. Thus you can probably get away with diving considerably colder conditions, particularly if you maintain a low air consumption rate. However if you get a free flow, likely it will quickly lead to reg free up and continued free flow.

This is a long winded way of saying that freeze up at 44F is not unlikely for many regs. IE if you are diving cold water - get the cold water kit.

 

[skimaster978]

This is off topic I know and I apologize but how could a regulator freeze up at 44f. This may be cold for wet diving but is not even enough to get the warm thermo wear out when diving dry. Most of our water at depth is mid 40's year round and I have never had a freeze up.

To answer your question of how this is possible considering it its above 32 degrees is that when the gas comes out of our tanks into our first stage and is decompressed, the air, as well as the water around it is cooled due to this process. It is then further decompressed in your second stage and thus cooled again, leaving it as a possibility to freeze in approx 45 degree weather. This is something seemingly simple now that I have been informed by other people, but before I had my free flow experience, I would have never known.

It is however unlikely, but given that it was my fourth dive of the day at that temperature, taking large breathes, it certainly is plausible.

 

[Pedro Burrito]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The above posts were moved from Accidents and Incidents - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...ver-dies-after-being-found-dutch-springs.html . Excellent discussion but not germane to the incident.

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[Diver0001]

This is off topic I know and I apologize but how could a regulator freeze up at 44f. This may be cold for wet diving but is not even enough to get the warm thermo wear out when diving dry. Most of our water at depth is mid 40's year round and I have never had a freeze up.

It can happen if there is water on the inside of the 1st stage or in the internals of the 2nd stage valve. Both of which can happen from over zealous rinsing after the dive when the reg is not pressurized.

Given what the OP said, I'm going to vote 1st stage. I'm thinking leaving the 1st submerged for extended periods while rinsing..... but that's just a guess.

R..

 

[Herb-alaska]

i actually should have qualified my question with that yes I understood that it could happen but I doubt it is prevalent in a rig that is rated for cold water, serviced and tuned properly, and handled properly. In a cold water dive you should be very careful about breathing off your reg before you are submerged as the moister in your breathe could freeze in the cold ambient air before you submerge causing a free flow. But in a situation where the cold water is below a thermocline, and the reg is not being over breathed a free flow in mid 40's water is unlikely. Just my opinion from my experience base

 

[AWMIII]

Most people that dive Dutch springs don't bother with cold water regs with detuned intermediate pressure. In the warmer months, the top layer can be 80 degrees down to 35 ft while the deepest water is in the 40s. It is a real challenge. Not only is it a challenge to dress and pick equipment, a diver can slip beneath a 10-20 degree thermocline. This may cause new divers to panic. It is a challenging place to dive. It is almost easier to dive there earlier in the season because the thermocline is not add dramatic.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Diver0001]

a diver can slip beneath a 10-20 degree thermocline. This may cause new divers to panic. It is a challenging place to dive.

.... really?

Where I live freezing regs happen a fair amount in the winter. Water temps get down to just about freezing so any momentary freeflow, which can easily happen, for example, during an entry, will cause the reg to freeze. Normally turning off the tank for 5 minutes will allow it to thaw and the dive can be continued. Obviously under water you can't do that without redundant gear so for that reason you see a lot of divers in our local area using twins and Y/H valves and dual regs.

I really don't see many freezing under water, tbh, but we all use environmentally sealed regs. Also, normally when they go it doesn't immediately cause violent free flow--sometimes vigorous bubbling but usually not the violent types of free flows you would see from, for example, a dislodged HP seat. I really wouldn't expect someone to panic from it.

The most free flows I ever saw on a dive was in the Czech republic when we were diving under the ice. The problem wasn't the water temperature, it was the air temperature. -15C with a wind. Shortly after entry with three divers we had 3 inflator hoses and 2 out of 3 drysuit hoses frozen. All the regulators were still working. We hung around the entrance for a good 5 minutes to let the water, which was only +2, *warm* up our gear

During that dive one of the divers had a dry suit develop a leak due to a small rip that formed from the cold (a DUI with that light trilam that you shouldn't use in cold water) and two of us had freeflows upon surfacing. In my case I bumped my reg while climbing out of the water and by the time I got to it, the 1st stage and hand wheel from the k-valve were covered in ice and shortly there after it was a block of ice. The set stood all afternoon my our host's garage before it was thawed out enough to close it. I should have taken pictures but I didn't think about it.

R..