cold water and my reg.?

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CompuDude,

Don't worry I know what you mean and DA Aquamaster thanks for your info although it doesn't make me feel any better since, I have a couple of MK25s and this is really just another POS marketing bs from these companies.

I don't dive in cold waters so I guess my Mk25 should perform fine but it really sucks to buy a reg that only works under certain conditions and it really sucks when the reg is supposed to be the top of the line model.

Looks like Apex will be getting my $ in the future.

SangP
 
Apex's marketing pukes do the same thing so switching companies is not really the solution.

Personally, I think Scubapro's Mk 17 is the best first stage available for cold and deep diving. There big screw up is that they do not market it as their top of the line reg - I suspect due to their long affiliation with balanced piston regs and the very impressive flow rates they can produce. But on the other hand, MK 17 customers benefit from the MK 17's billing as a mid level reg as they get a truly excellent reg for a lot less than a MK 25.
 
DA Aquamaster,

Here's my dilemma, to go with a company that keeps increasing prices year after year, but still keeps to old reliable technology... Apex. Or go with a company that keeps changing regs every other year with unnecessary changes that are marketing bs, have recall after recall but have the latest technology (whether they use it properly is another matter)... Scubapro.

I'm all for the MK17 but guess what the local distributor doesn't carry them nor has any plans to bring them in which makes servicing a real pain.

What would you suggest I do DA Aquamaster?

SangP
 
I'm not a huge fan of SP, however, I think you'll find that if the shop is a SP dealer, they will still carry service kits for SP regs they do not carry. They can also order you any reg you want.
 
Quarrior,

I wish it was that simple, they have informed me that they will not service MK17 at all and any servicing will have to be sent to HK. Their rational is that the tools are expensive and will not be worth their while to get just to service a couple of MK17 regs... that's the scubapro way.

SangP
 
SangP:
Quarrior,

I wish it was that simple, they have informed me that they will not service MK17 at all and any servicing will have to be sent to HK. Their rational is that the tools are expensive and will not be worth their while to get just to service a couple of MK17 regs... that's the scubapro way.

SangP
Well, that sucks big time. Although with SP, it doesn't surprise me.

Here's my recommendation, as I offered earlier in the thread, Zeagle DSV with ZX second stage and ZX octo. Here's a link to the Zeagle website showing who their dealer is in Singapore http://www.zeagle.com/index.php?sor=address_country&search=Singapore&src=directory&view=dealerlist&submenu=FindADealer&submit.x=9&submit.y=9

You can also use that link to do some research on their regs. I'll be using my Zeagles in Phuket in Sep - Dec so if you are heading that way, you're welcome to try one.
 
Thanks Quarrior,

Really this is really pure marketing bs and other than $ there isn't any damn reason why there is a need for that many regs in the first place. ATX 50, 100, 200, are all the same regs anyway and what's the point of having a DS4, FST, FSR anyway when their performances are so similar.

Same here for scubapro's stupid ways of getting on their customer's nerves. Mk 17, 25, 2, 11. The soon to be discontinued X650, constant model changes! Lack of service support... this is really getting too much.

As much as I like my scubapro regs, I would gladly trade them for an Apex anyday cus I know the Apex distributor and at the very least I know the regs won't freeflow easily, are able to take the cold, have spare parts that are going to be around for a long time yet and with a bit of training I can service them myself.

SangP

Quarrior, I only wish I can make it but I sincerely, appreciate the offer and the info on the regs.
 
design -

SP uses an evolutionary design process. The Mk 25 for example was little differnet than the Mk 20 it replaced, it's just that the detail changes and annual design improvements added up to justify a model number change.

The Mk 17 is basically a Mk 16 with improved seat alignment, an improved balancing system and an environmental seal.

The end result though is that the regs get incrementally better - something we expect in cars in subsrquent model years - and the improvements are usually retrofittable into older models. This approach keeps the reg fresh and current technologiclaly speaking. It also ensires that annual service kits remain available as, for exmaple, the 60's vintage Adjustabel can be upgraded to an 80's vintage4 Balanced Adjustable and both the use the smae poppet assembly as the current S600 and offer very similar performance. Form other cmpanies, you won't be able to get a 40 year old reg serviced let alone upgraded to currnet performance standards.

recalls-

Recall wise the X650 has been the only real problem. The large initial recall was due to it being pushed into production too soon to replace the disconrtinued D400 and the second small recall (about 700 units) was due to the manufacturing company changing the grind (material) used to mold the case without telling SP what they were doing.

The Mk 20 recall was recall to prevent stupid people from doing to stupid things like over torqueing parts on the reg, it was not due to a design defect.

Mk 17 tools -

The Mk 17 requires only one special tool and it costs$33.00. It's the Mk 17 socket listed on the top of this page:

http://www.scubatools.com/Scubapro.html

You could probably even torque it properly if you had suitably sized crow foot wrenches, but $33.00 is not excessive for tool cost and will basically be recovered in the labor charge on the first service it's used on.

Parts kits -

Any SP dealer can order the parts kits whether they stock the regs or not, and should as the odds are that sooner or later someone will come in with one for service whether they sold any or not. Your SP dealer can also special order a Mk 17 with any second stage you prefer and have it in the shop in about a week so he does not have to inventory them if he does not want to.

My guess is your dealer is basically trying to make more money by selling you a more expensive Mk 25. I'd let hom know you are aware that the Mk 17 tool costs $33.00 but repeat your request for a Mk 17. If he is still not willing to work with you on ordering and servicing a Mk 17, I'd avoid him entirely as if he is insistent on lying to you and or screwing you now, he'll lie and screw you more later.

And if your SP dealer is not performing or providing good service, let SP know about it. They can't fix a problem they are not aware of.
 
DA Aquamaster,

Let's put this way, I bought a pair of jets from this same dealer and when I asked them about the warrenty they told me that once wet it's my problem. I mail SP HK to ask for an explanation since the jets have a lifetime warrenty in the us and guess what... nothing.

As far as I'm concern, I'll use my MK25 till the day I have to replace them and it won't be another SP reg. There is only ONE dealer of SP products here in Singapore and it's Richmond enterprises. I seriously doubt that SP HK has any concerns with this type of marketing or business practice. The tool is just another BS from a company whos dealers are more concern with $ than anything else. I was basically told by the guy working at the singaporean dealership that the MK25 has been used at antarctica with no modifications and if there was a need he'll just stuff the reg with grease to prevent freezing.

That's SP for ya.

SangP
 
SangP:
told by the guy working at the singaporean dealership that the MK25 has been used at antarctica with no modifications and if there was a need he'll just stuff the reg with grease to prevent freezing.

That's SP for ya.

SangP
Not sure about how the Mk 25 is built, but the grease isn't a bad fix. The Atomic M1 comes packed with Christolube from the factory, and it's been flawless.

I've actually fully depressed the purge on both 2nd stages at the same time in 35 degree water just to see if I could provoke a freeflow, and nothing happened. Christolube is your friend. (edit: unless you're the tech who has to clean out all the goo for the 2-year service 8-))


Terry
 

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