Cis-Lunar, MK15, MK 15.5

Best CCR rebreather made?

  • Cis-Lunar 5P

    Votes: 3 9.1%
  • Biomarine MK15/15.5/16

    Votes: 7 21.2%
  • Prisim Topaz

    Votes: 7 21.2%
  • Buddy Inspiration

    Votes: 12 36.4%
  • Powerbreathe Infinito

    Votes: 1 3.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 9.1%

  • Total voters
    33

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Hootis

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Messages
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Location
Northern CA & St Thomas, USVI
I'd like some quality feedback about the following rebreathers. I'm an aspiring rebreather pilot, and have purchased a MK15 w/ Juergensen Gen4 electronics (same as used in the Hammerhead) and offboard gas supply provisions. I am planning on training w/ Joe Dituri in Hawaii. I also have an opportunity to pick up a MK15.5, and am thinking about it because of the updated canister section. I would probably send it to Juergensen for updated electronics as well, and then sell the MK15 I bought. A friend mentioned there is also a Cis on the market now (and maybe several), however with Cis out of business, I'm concerned about the parts situation, although I know Juergensen has now taken over servicing of the 5P's. Some of the questions I have now are: the Cis 5P was once considered the Caddy of the rebreather market because of it's sophisticated electronics and datalogging capabilities...are they still considered the high water mark? I wonder if the complexity of the design may be needless overkill? The MK15/15.5/16 series rebreathers have probably more man hours on them than any other design (and an impressive safety record), but how do they compare (in actual diving) to more modern designs? (Inspiration, Topaz) Is the MK16 canister used in the MK15.5 worth the hassle and added expense of trading my MK15 for a 15.5? And, what exactly are the benefits of the MK16 center section, other than easier scrubber media changing. Is the gas path really improved? Lastly, I've heard reports of a new CCR available called the Infinito. Padiscubapro, did you get yours, yet? I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.... I'm looking for the take no prisoners, top of the line, best of the best rebreather.
 
Okay, the Mk15 and Mk15.5/16 center sections are significantly different in not just how they load, but also in their breathing performance characteristics and duration.

The lack of insulation of the metal Mk15 center section, its high work of breathing (note the small exhale/inhale ports on the center section and small cross-sectional area of the inlet and outlet holes of the canister), and the none spring loading on the absorbent canister, makes it prone not only to channelling, but also to unpredictable CO2 scrubbing times unless you spend at least 40 minutes packing the scrubber. Make sure it is filled to the brim with no pockets or voids, and the rubber seal sealing band is correctly installed. The water temperature has a hugh effect on its duration as well.

The Mk15.5/16 is a significant improvement over the Mk15, which is why the navy spent many millions developing it and its still used to this day. It's center section is glass reinforced ABS plastic to give much better insulation for cold water applications, it has larger diameter ports and greater cross-sectional area inlet and outlet of the cansister, a foam compression pad inside the top loading scrubber aids reduction of voids and space to reduce likelyhood of channeling. It contains at least a pound more material, 8.5lbs approx of 8/12 as opposed to about 7.5lbs in the Mk15.

Personally I have dived all of the Mk15/15.5/16 systems and if I was to chose one of this series, then I prefer the Mk15.5 which combined the best of both the Mk15 and the Mk16. It has the smaller Mk15 case, the best work of breathing characteristics and durations of this type, it has an on/off switch and analog secondary. However, maintenance costs are high, spares are almost imposible to get, weight of the system for the duration is somewhat excessive by todays standards, and hydrostatic lung loading is not ideal. Very good rig in it's day but now its been superseded. I still have a soft spot for the old rigs though.
 
Hey guys,
Lot's of voting...but no talking...let's hear your opinions about these rebreathers. Shas...thanks for the quality remarks!
Hootis
 
Hootis,

Ever since 7th grade when I found a photo of a Beckman Electrolung, I had to have a close circuit rebreather. I had already been diving open circuit for a year at that time.

30 years later, Dave Thompson, Martin Parker and the crew and collaborators with AP Valves and has made that dream affordable and safer for me. I have only about 30 dives on my Inspiration but I have not tried other units. Now in fairness, they say such limited dive #'s make one a novice I am told, but I don't do deco or dives deeper then 130 feet anyway.

Observations on the Inspiration. The unit so far is extremely stable, reliable and in my opinion, very well built and extremely easy to service and use. Scrubber repacks are very quick and the scrubber has a good spring and spacer system to keep it off the bottom of the scrubber cannister. The cannister itself is made of plastic, which insulates it better. The harness and BC are very well made too.

What would I do to improve it? Well, everything is a trade-off, trick something out and there is more to go wrong or it costs more or both.

I will be getting a new DSV with Bob Howell's integral 2nd stage and I will be getting AP's automatic diluent addition valve. The addition of both of these items will match 2 notable features the cool Cis Lunar Mk 5P had. I also may get an LED HUD for P02, but if I go this route I will probably sleeve the DSV hoses to route the cable or intervalically clip it. The Cis-Lunar had a really nicely engineered P02 LED HUD

I would prefer a convex style lens on the handsets or a larger display to be able to see it better. I would also prefer that the handsets has an integral dive computer. the new Hammerhead scrubber top has 2 nice controller/computer combos, but I do not like crap on my wrists, and I don't know where else one would put them.
Cochran says they are working on a LifeGuard Gemini with realtime P02 that is transmitted wirelessly to the receiver, and it will also wirelessly transmit 02 and dil pressure.

The unit probably needs a SS backplate, which I have on order, as balancing it critical for underwater positional attitude and comfort. I personally think that there is more room or more room could be easily made for a taller scrubber cannister, as duration seems limited comparatively speaking to other CCR's.

I think the counterlungs are too cluttered, but in fairness, I am phobic to crap hanging all over me....you would have thought with a CCR I took a wrong turn on that, lol. I would like an elastic cumberbund so I feel less cumbersome in my cumberbund. This may help stop the harness from creeping up as it does.

The dil and 02 injector valves are too easy to cross thread and not see till you do a positive and negative loop check. Perhaps the thread type could be changed, but someone will have to pay for that, the buyer.

The rubber mouthpiece is way too flimsy, so the unit flops all over the place from the drag of it's size underwater. The counterlungs rub against my neck when not wearing the hood....wonder what one does when going tropical.

I think that someone or the manufacturer ought to build a unit with a tether to a controller where the instructor in a pool can induce various failures and the student can practice real drills and work-arounds. Steve MadMole Hawkins I think is working on some software where one can Inspiration flight sims on a computer. If I were AP, I would buy, subsidize, collaborate or license that into the training curriculum. A unit specific CCR flight sim is an ingenious idea.

I would like to go to the next annual Sunsent House CCR get-together so I can look at a Cis-Lunar in person.

All in all, I have been really happy with the Inspiration, it is well made, reliable, affordable and very efficient.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful remarks DrySuitDave. Cool sim madmole. Failure modes work in this version? Took it for a quick dive to 50 (meters?) and back, in loop flood mode...no failure. Great practice at managing gas supplies, and gauges.
 
Hi Hootis,

Joe Dituri seems a good adress. He teaches both the Mk5 as well as the Inspiration, and several other other units.
Same goes for Tom Mount, who in a post on another board said he currently owns a Mk5, Megalodon, Inspiration, CCR2000 and K3.

As they both own several RBs, they should be able to help answer your question.

Good luck
Stefan

PS: Better than just telling you, get them to post their input here for all to share. :D
 
I have a 15.5, Cis-Lunar and Inspiration. My view is this. The 15.5 is my personal favorite, all original. It is like a 48 Harley, best original and only brought out on special occasions, same goes for my Cis. They are both extremely good units;however they are also getting harder and harder to come buy. That makes upkeep much more difficult and expensive. If it is your only unit you could be down for quite awhile if you need parts. On the otherhand if you buy a current unit, parts are a snap, training is readily available and you wont want to kill someone if they scratch your case. I get about 6 hours a week on my inspiration, its my workhorse. I have heard great things about the infinito, if you've got the bank go for it. So far though the most bang for my buck has definately been the inspiration. If you plan to dive consistantly this would be my recomendation. You can also check out the prism, meglodon(not sure if their back online yet). These both appear to be fine units as well.
 

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