Choosing the best dry suit materials

[headhunter]

I've found as much as I could through searching the board.

Now I'm looking for the DIR answer, since I usually find the answers to be well reasoned with an explanation "why".

Let me start by saying that I plan on taking the DIR-F class.

Just for reference, I was looking at DUI suits at my LDS. Specifically, the TLS350, CLx450 and CF200. I don't mean to make my questions brand specific, but it does give us a reference point for discussion.

I like the idea of the trilam suit drying more quickly, but I keep reading that the crushed neoprene suit is "much" more durable. I've also read that crushed neoprene is a bad idea because of the suit's compression at depth as well as the evaporative cooling effect that may chill you during a windy surface interval.

At some point in the future, I would like to wreck dive (with proper training) and some of the comments I've read refer to the TLS350 getting somewhat shredded in a wreck. By the way, I have visions of someone going through a wreck like a steel ball in a pinball machine. This can't be right! :11:

I've read posts where many wreck divers seem to be more fond of the CF200 because of its durability in this environment filled with sharp features that could damage a suit. On the otherhand, I read that it takes 2 days to dry your suit and that it's not a great suit to travel with because of its weight.

I've read other posts that mention that although DUI claims the CLx450 is more durable than the TLS350, that the CLx450 is just too stiff and becomes restrictive of your movement without really being much more resiliant to damage.

So, on to my questions and a public display of my ignorance on the subject.

1) Wouldn't the compressibility of a crushed neoprene suit be a moot point since you inflate your drysuit anyway? It seems that compression of air would take place whether it was "in" the suit or "inside" the suit and that any issues would be tied more to the amount of suit inflation.

2) Do some people successfully use a trilam shell as opposed to crushed neoprene shell in a wreck environment and given the opportunity to do it over, would they have purchased a crushed neoprene suit instead?

3) Has anyone switched from the TLS350 to the CLx450 or visa versa and if so, which did you like better and why? (I know I got brand specific on that one, but those were the suits I was looking at and I would like the feedback. I would like to say that at this point, I am open to any other brand. However, I've found that DUI seems to have the best reputation.)

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me to further my understanding with part or all of my questions.

Christian

 

[d33ps1x]

1) Wouldn't the compressibility of a crushed neoprene suit be a moot point since you inflate your drysuit anyway? It seems that compression of air would take place whether it was "in" the suit or "inside" the suit and that any issues would be tied more to the amount of suit inflation.

The gas inside your suit is controllable by you. The compression and decompression of the neoprene in the suit is not. I have been diving a DUI CF200, Diving Concepts Ultraflex Pro and a DUI CLX450 over the past couple of months and in all honesty I never did feel that the supposed buoancy shift in the CF200 was a really big deal in shallower waters.

Not to overly confuse the issue but my biggest knocks against the CF200 are more that it is heavy as hell both dry and wet, smell nasty all the time because it take 42 weeks to dry after diving, and when it does leak, as all drysuits eventually do, it is much harder to find the leak as leaks in neoprene will often travel through the material to odd places before showing up on the other side.

One other benefit of a trilam suit is that it can be pretty much instantly dried and repaired onsite and have you back in the water within an hour or two. This is not as easy with a CF200

2) Do some people successfully use a trilam shell as opposed to crushed neoprene shell in a wreck environment and given the opportunity to do it over, would they have purchased a crushed neoprene suit instead?

I know of divers diving all three of these suits up here in Ontario which is safe to say is loaded with nothing but wreck dives. These suits are not cheap and therefore the divers using them that I have met and know generally are more aggressive divers that don't just circle a wreck once and go home.

There is no question that the suit of choice, as mentioned in articles by Dave Sweetin in GUE's Quest magazine, is the TSL350 cavecut. If you search www.thedecostop.com for information on this suit you will find the specs on how to get DUI to make one for you laid out. If you don't let me know and I will forward the information to you. Check out the conversations there in the exposure protection forum. LOTS of talk about this stuff.

An interesting point to make is that another brand of suit that I mentioned above, Diving Concepts, is gaining "DIR" popularity. The Tech Cut Ultraflex Pro, which is the big suit, is a very similar material to the CLX 450. The only difference is the lack of what DUI calls "Tough Duck" layering on the top half of the suit. But this tough duck exists on both the TLS350 and the CLX450 so the top halves of the suits are similar in terms of flexibility. In fact by the time you end up with a cave cut TSL350 the top half of the suit is essentially a CLX450 anyways and the lower half is still the thinner more flexible TSL350 material.

With that said I don't know of any of the divers I know who want to actually switch their suits out for something else.

3) Has anyone switched from the TLS350 to the CLx450 or visa versa and if so, which did you like better and why? (I know I got brand specific on that one, but those were the suits I was looking at and I would like the feedback. I would like to say that at this point, I am open to any other brand. However, I've found that DUI seems to have the best reputation.)

The only suit I haven't dove on a regular basis IS the TLS350 but I'll probably grab one one day for a nice light travel suit.

With that said the CLX450 dries fast and is flexible enough for me. I also really like the Diving Concepts suit mentioned above and it is all over, a kickass deal when combined with their thinsulate stretch extreme TPS undies.

Other opinions may and will vary.

 

[headhunter]

Other opinions may and will vary.

Hey d33ps1x, that was really helpful. I look forward to seeing other opinions as well, but I feel that I learned a lot from your answers.

Thanks!

Christian

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

Consider it this way: rule out the CF altogether. For warmth, go with good thermals and possibly argon. Now there is no need for a neoprene suit. Even if it is crushed, the other characteristics are against it.

I have been diving a TLS350 for about a year and a half now. I picked it up used. I think it was made a long time ago, like more than 10 to 15 years although I don't know how long that model has been out. So it had seen a considerable number of dives even before I got it. I almost exclusively dive wrecks and it is still going pretty strong.

I will give serious consideration to a CLX450 if I buy a new suit but I will have to give the drawbacks some thought as well. I do like the idea of even better durability. After all, accidents do happen.

At least you can narrow things down to two instead of three.

 

[headhunter]

Consider it this way: rule out the CF altogether. For warmth, go with good thermals and possibly argon. Now there is no need for a neoprene suit. Even if it is crushed, the other characteristics are against it.

I have been diving a TLS350 for about a year and a half now. I picked it up used. I think it was made a long time ago, like more than 10 to 15 years although I don't know how long that model has been out. So it had seen a considerable number of dives even before I got it. I almost exclusively dive wrecks and it is still going pretty strong.

I will give serious consideration to a CLX450 if I buy a new suit but I will have to give the drawbacks some thought as well. I do like the idea of even better durability. After all, accidents do happen.

At least you can narrow things down to two instead of three.

Thanks for the advice ScubaDadMiami. It looks like a trilam material (like the TLS350 and the CLx450) is more highly recommended by more divers than a crushed neoprene material (like the CF200).

I'm interested in hearing whether people who have tried both the TLS350 and the CLx450 prefer one over the other and why.

Christian

 

[JacobsonC2]

i have a TLS350 and love it, mainly used for great lakes wreck diving( DUI 350's and 450's seem to be the most popular around here). i did buy it used. i have had no problems so far and love the suit. i went to a dui demo days in june and tryed a 450, which i didnt like as much. the 350 is just so much lighter and faster to dry. if you are traveling alot and doing multiple dives i would recommend a 350. just my 2cents. have you tyed both suits? you should go to one of DUI demo days.