Choosing a Local Dive Shop

[Scubagolf]

Non-profit clubs do exist--or at least used to not long ago. In each case I know, however, legal issues were involved that limited their ability to function.

• I met members of a dive club in Cozumel years ago, and they were trying to figure out their status. They had been loosely associated with a dive shop, holding meetings in the shop, etc. That came to an end when the dive shop's attorneys told them not to allow any sign of a connection. If there was any sign of a connection and the dive shop ran into legal trouble, they could become inolved in that trouble. (In a similar situation, I worked in a high school, and a local youth hockey team composed of students from that high school took the name and logo of the school, implying that they were the school's official hockey team. Attorneys told the school not to even hint of a connection--they could not be mentioned in the school newspaper. The wisdom of that was shown when the team became involved in an ugly brawl with police called and the coach shouting and gesturing obsenities to the crowd.)
• A dive club chartered a boat for a 3-tank dive. Two of their members who happened to be certified DMs called roll before and after dives, and they somehow missed a diver named Dan Carlock after the first dive. The boat headed off to another site for the next dives, and the two DMs missed Dan on those roll calls, too. Dan floated around for a while before being rescued by another boat, anf the lawsuit went well into the millions. They even successfully sued PADI because the two DMs were certified by PADI. I don't know if the club stayed in existence.

Article from LA Times on the Dan Carlock verdict on 2010.

Engineer wins $1.68 million in scuba diving case

Engineer wins $1.68 million in scuba diving case

www.latimes.com

 

[Hoag]

After reading through this, it would appear that through no due diligence of my own, I hit the jackpot when I did my OW & AOW courses. I was out of town in Panama City Florida for work and I went to a dive shop that was just across the bridge from Tyndall AFB. My instructor was a retired US Navy SEAL. Although he was willing to give advice on equipment, other than mask snorkel booties & fins, we were never pressured into buying anything. Even though my instructor was willing to give advice, he never did so unsolicited, and when he did give advice it tended to be more along the lines of "Here are the advantages of this _______ and here are the potential drawbacks."

As to @feldomatic 's original question, it seems to me that based on your evaluation and commentary, that you have essentially ruled out Shop C. With A & B being left as the two viable contenders, it seems that the big draw is that Shop A offers the training with the GI Bill. While financial considerations must be a factor, my advice to you would be to spend some time (maybe with someone you trust joining you) in both Shop A and Shop B. Talk to the people there including other customers and "get a feel" for the shop and how they do things. Breathing underwater is not natural, and these have got to be people that you will literally trust with your life. After you have done this, trust your instincts (Listen to that little Obi Wan voice in your head telling you to "Trust the Force".) and go with the place that seems to you to be the best fit. If we listen to them, our instincts are actually pretty finely tuned to make decisions that are right.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No, I just wrote facts. You made the interpretation of those facts yourself.

Thank you John. That's exactly what I was hoping you would say.

Earlier you stated:

Agency bashing is when you make vague, fact-free attacks that appeal to emotions rather than reason.

• Agency ABCD is leading a continuous spiral to the bottom.

I don't think anyone thinks any agency is leading a continuous spiral to the bottom. Though it has been over a decade since your moving to NB article was published, it would be disingenuous to ignore that PADI has made a smidgen of an effort to get skills demonstrated neutrally buoyant by limiting the maximum score for two skills (correct me if I'm wrong but these are regulator removal and clear and mask removal, replacement, and clear). However, one could make the case that PADI did bring about a significant decline in the quality of training in 1981 when (from their blog here: PADI Through the Decades: The 1980s)

1981: Pool Dives

In 1981, PADI became the first scuba program to have new divers use scuba gear during their first confined water/pool dives. At the time it was considered bizarre to start divers with scuba rather than freediving. Now it has become an industry standard, and the “Dive Today” approach has continued to prove itself.

When I became an instructor and until I stopped renewing, it was a standards violation to start CW1 with skin diving/snorkeling skills. This is unfortunate that this tool is not allowed at the start as I have found it to be invaluable to easing the transition to scuba.

Now this happened before my time, but it is my understanding that when divers were taught this way, they were not overweighted. I sure hope not prior to 1970 when the BCD was invented and I hope that didn't change. But with teaching on the knees with this change, students were. Now overweighting wasn't mandated and PADI did specify weight checks in every dive, but that was the result.

Hopefully this argument is fact based for you and not an appeal to emotions.

On to SSI. You stated

I described their intent.

Your interpretation of their intent.

I explained specifically why I objected to them.

Fair enough but it is your interpretation.

You say they are all standard. I have never seen them anywhere else.

I have seen similar practices during my entire career in hardware/software development. Everything is about maximizing profit, and sometimes laws were broken and there was a spanking from the DOJ.

The shop I was in when they changed did not do anything like that before they switched to SSI. The shop I was in later did not do anything like it even after they switched to SSI.

I saw pretty much all of these at the first PADI shop I taught at. It didn't come from PADI, the primary owner also worked in IT. I can go into character issues, but that would violate TOS. Now this guy took things to an extreme, and his shop not surprisingly went out of business. That was the worst situation I've ever seen.

I don't have an objection to these concepts if they are actually serving the customers interests. For people who have never touched scuba gear before, it isn't appropriate to try to sell them gear (I really hated teaching courses where the owner comes in and like a used car salesman tries to push his crappy packages, as I always saw my students become uncomfortable and tune out). But for people who have done DSDs/Try Scuba experiences, if they are gung ho, selling them gear for their course isn't out of line.

But it must be done ethically and honestly. That's the tough part. I haven't come across many truly ethical shop owners. They do need to keep the lights on, but I find those who focus on developing a relationship and looking for the interests of their customers manage well. What kind of diving do they want to do. Explain to them the benefits/limitations/etc..

There are people on here who have shared stories of some great dive shop owners/managers/employees who treated them with respect and didn't try to make a hard sale. That's one thing the industry needs to become healthier.

So when selecting an LDS, it really comes down to the culture that the owner and manager set. For a local shop chain, the shops do vary a fair bit as the owner is fairly hands off, and lets the managers run their respective shows.

I encourage divers to seek quality training but also a shop where they feel good walking into the door. Ideally the scuba version of Cheers.

 

[Green Frog]

Unfortunately my last truly local LDS closed several years ago and now the nearest (which has a somewhat sketchy rep) is about 30 mi away. After that, the closest are about 45,50, and 65 mi away, not all in the same direction. As a result of this situation, I’ve cultivated a relationship with all three of these stores and do my due diligence by studying appropriate fora on this board, studying products and prices here and other places online, and planning ahead to make my trips to the various dive shops as productive as possible.

”A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do!”

I really envy you folks who are”forced” to choose between 2, 3, or more local shops. Be happy for the opportunity!

 

[feldomatic]

Unfortunately my last truly local LDS closed several years ago and now the nearest (which has a somewhat sketchy rep) is about 30 mi away. After that, the closest are about 45,50, and 65 mi away, not all in the same direction.

Local is a relative word. All 3 that I mentioned previously are 30+ minutes drive time, and the moment I hit technical training I'll be driving >60 miles.