cheaper to buy than rent?? help please

[sleeprequired]

Hi All,

New to this forum (in posts) and relatively new to Scuba. Basically my partner and I have done some diving before and we are now considering our own gear because hiring will prove as much as buying. Basically we have NO GEAR at all apart from mask, boots, snorkel and fins.
So the purpose of this post is to
1. get opinions on which package to buy - Scuba Diving Packages | Custom Design Scuba Packages @ Divers-Supply.com. Ie which brands are best? Can we mix and match regs with BCD’s for example?
2. Are we missing anything essential? Eg like weights, not just the BCD for example
3. Avoid making any noob purchasing mistakes/omissions etc
4. Avoid picking the brands and/or package combinations
5. Which upgrade options are worthwhile

I am about 100kgs and 5.11 and the missus is about 75kg and 176cm. I think I want a traditional jacket BCD, definitely weights in pockets vs belts. Being a bigger bloke, i struggle with belts and have to do them up VERY tight. I prefer to buy quality stuff once off than rubbish, we are also buying for comfort and an upgrade to rental stuff.


thanks,

Matt

 

[Lemna]

Hi Matt,

just some thoughts:

The one thing that you might want to rent is a BCD, just to try a few and assess fit and function underwater. It will depend on the shop whether you will be allowed to mix and match regs and BCDs. Try wetsuits on before buying, fit is essential and almost impossible to judge without having them on hand. And finally, consider adding a torch to your shopping list, depending on where and when you plan to dive. You need one in many coldwater locations, even for day dives.

 

[MrsBBC]

Matt,

Of course you can mix and match brand names. Mix the BCD, first stage, 2nd stages and pressure gauge if you want to. Don't let a dive shop convince you that you should only use one brand (the brand that they stock).

If you are set on integrated weights, one thing worth considering is what 'things' you might intend to carry with you on a dive in the future. With my old integrated BCD, even when I didn't use the integrated weights I couldn't fit anything in those pockets and the zip was a pain in the ass to use underwater. Obviously if your wet/drysuit has pockets then this won't be a problem.

I won't give any more advice, as the rest of the guys on here are pretty good at doling it out.
I was repeatedly given bad advice when I started out. I asked all the right questions, got all the wrong answers and spent 10 years in a rig that I never comfortable in.

What kind of diving do you plan to do in the near future and hope to acheive more long term, even if this is years away?
Is this cold or warm water diving?
Are you part of a club that has cylinders and weight etc?
If you plan on being a computer diver, which most divers are these days I would recommend getting one that has
Nitrox, Air, and Gauge mode.
A nitrox computer doesn't cost any more than an air only model and you will be grateful when you start using nitrox... which you probably will if you're going to make a regular hobby out of diving.

Nic

 

[fjpatrum]

Hi All,

New to this forum (in posts) and relatively new to Scuba. Basically my partner and I have done some diving before and we are now considering our own gear because hiring will prove as much as buying. Basically we have NO GEAR at all apart from mask, boots, snorkel and fins.
So the purpose of this post is to
1. get opinions on which package to buy - Scuba Diving Packages | Custom Design Scuba Packages @ Divers-Supply.com. Ie which brands are best? Can we mix and match regs with BCD’s for example?
2. Are we missing anything essential? Eg like weights, not just the BCD for example
3. Avoid making any noob purchasing mistakes/omissions etc
4. Avoid picking the brands and/or package combinations
5. Which upgrade options are worthwhile

I am about 100kgs and 5.11 and the missus is about 75kg and 176cm. I think I want a traditional jacket BCD, definitely weights in pockets vs belts. Being a bigger bloke, i struggle with belts and have to do them up VERY tight. I prefer to buy quality stuff once off than rubbish, we are also buying for comfort and an upgrade to rental stuff.


thanks,

Matt

I'm a big proponent of people buying their own gear. I'm also a big proponent of buying quality gear used. It's a fraction of the cost and works just as well. Here's a thread I started about what to look for in used gear: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...ying-used-discriminating-shoppers-primer.html (For what it's worth, a lot of the same "things to look for" can also be applied to buying new gear.)


Now to answer your questions specifically:

1) Brands are mostly irrelevant. If you buy any piece of equipment in the same price range, it will be equally good no matter what logo it has on it. Mix and match is completely possible. I have no less than 6 different brands on my person at any given time. With regs, if you're looking to mix and match, just make sure your second stage is properly tuned to the IP of the first stage and you're good to go. Any shop that tells you that you can't mix and match should be avoided like the plague. Now, they may not give you "package pricing" on mix and match but that's not the same thing.

2) Weights and tanks are usually provided by dive ops as part of the dive cost. That said, if you're going to do local shore diving they're nice to have but also not necessary. You can always rent tanks and I've never been charged for weight usage despite the list price for weight rentals. I have only been in about 20 shops, though, so that may be different. The shops I have been in have been in Thailand, Hawaii, the Bahamas, Florida, Arizona, and local to me here in the DC area, though, so I think you'll find similar experience with weights.

3) Odds are very good that you'll consider, at some point, replacing some of the gear you buy initially. Don't worry about it. If you shop carefully your gear will be useful even if your needs change in the future. That said, if you know you want to go the tech route, don't buy a jacket BC, just jump right into a BP/W. If tech isn't something you already know you want, buy what you can afford that fits you well, no matter what it is.

4) There are so many personal opinions on brands and packages that you need to decide what your needs are and then buy accordingly. IE you know you want a jacket, find one that fits you well but if you're going to possibly be diving cold water (sub 50* F) consider "cold water" regs and a BC that will also give you the opportunity for comfort in a thick wetsuit or drysuit.

5) What upgrade options are you talking about? Some sort of computer is nice to have. About the only "upgrade" I can think of that actually is an upgrade is buying a more robust/capable computer that had AI and multiple gasses. Everything else really boils down to preference and won't perform significantly different than any other similar design.

I can't recommend packages without more information about the type of diving you do or want to do, to be honest. For some a travel package will be great and relatively inexpensive. For others, that's not a good choice... The right answer is "it depends".

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I have a blog post, "Buy New or Buy Used?" which you might find helpful. I have a preference for buying face to face from a local outlet that can service and repair my stuff on site, and I have a preference for new gear except for accessories. Not all agree with me, of course. As to all gear, buy stuff that is suited to the type of diving you will be doing most of the time. Also, if you will be diving a lot (50 dives or more per year) stay away from "economy" packages. For the rest of my general considerations, read the blog post. I steer clear of brand recommendations. Everyone has their favorites. I do suggest its best to get products that are sold (and serviced) world wide. I also find that people who own their own gear dive more- we want to get our "money's worth" out of our stuff. Happy Diving!
DivemasterDennis

 

[TMHeimer]

I bought mostly used stuff, washed it after all dives in still use most of it today (7 years). Belt: consider suspenders (I bought at LDS- $15)--make sure buddy can release enough weight easily if need be. Or possibly the shoulder harness--this may be better. No more busting a gut tightening belt.

 

[scubacheeze]

I would definitely say rent a couple times, get in the water and see what you like and don't like with the equipment you're renting, and you'll have a much better idea of what you want to buy. At first it's kind of like drinking from a firehose with all the information and different products out there, but no one can tell you what you like and don't like! Once you get a little experience, that extra $100-200 you spent renting (or however much it ends up being) will be well worth your money if it means you don't get stuck with something you don't like for a few years.

 

[TSandM]

Just an observation about packages . . . in general, they are put together with some gear that is highly desirable, matched up with stuff the shop has trouble selling, in an effort to get you to take both. There's often a reason the stuff that's hard to sell isn't moving

If you do some research and figure out what you actually WANT, you can take that list to the dive shop and ask them what they'll do for you if you buy it all at once. Often, you can get a significant reduction in the total price.

What you actually need depends on where you intend to dive. This is my list of stuff for cold water diving:

Hood
Mask
Regulator (first stage, two second stages, pressure gauge)
BC (I use a backplate setup)
Gauges -- compass and computer, mine are on my wrists
Weights -- I use a belt and camband weight pouches; you'd be looking at an integrated weight system, but be sure it's designed to carry the amount of weight you will need for the kind of diving you want to do. Also, look to see if the BC has trim pouches that will allow you to put some weight up higher on your back. For most people, putting all their weight around the waist area will make it difficult to maintain a horizontal position in the water.
Cutting device -- I use a small knife. There are a lot of good options, including EMT shears and things like the Trilobite EEzyCut, but everybody IMO should have a cutting device with them to use in the event of fishing line or nets.
Light -- If you intend to dive in cold or murky water, this is truly a safety feature. Otherwise, lights are handy for looking into crevices and for night dive. This is a purchase that can be deferred, if you are only doing daylight tropical diving.
Fins
Exposure protection -- again, this depends on where you are going to dive. But if you are buying wetsuits, I would HIGHLY recommend neither buying on line nor used. Neoprene fatigues, and used suits may not be good insulation. Wetsuits work only as well as they fit, and fit really differs from brand to brand. Wetsuits need to be tried on before they are bought, which can mean a lot of shipping back and forth, if you try to buy them on line. Dry suits are actually easier, because although fit is important, it isn't as critical as with wetsuits.
Signaling devices -- these are very important if you are going to dive off boats, and may be required for shore diving in some places. There are mirrors, whistles, air horns, and a variety of inflatable signaling devices (look through the gear section for threads on SMBs).

Additional items down the road will include a save-a-dive kit of some sort, with various small items that come in handy when things fail (like, for example, zip ties!) and bags or other containers for transporting dive gear.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[BVickery]

Some great advice. Keep renting and do some thinking on what you want to do now, and in the future. Are you going to stay rec. or is there a chance of going tech etc. Different disciplines will have different gear requirements. Find out things you like about the gear your renting, and some stuff you don't. If your lucky your LDS will have a pool or able to try stuff out in.

 

[boulderjohn]

Just an observation about packages . . . in general, they are put together with some gear that is highly desirable, matched up with stuff the shop has trouble selling, in an effort to get you to take both. There's often a reason the stuff that's hard to sell isn't moving

I learned from a marketing consultant that there is a second reason for packages. It is important for the seller to make a certain average profit margin on things sold. That margin is not consistent from item to item. There are some items with which the seller has to be very competitive, and the margin is small. There is some on which the margin is downright HUGE. The problem for the seller is that a lot of times the ones with the really big margins are items you might not buy normally. By putting together a package of items with different profit margins, the seller can maintain a healthy average. So the package is a good deal for you compared to buying the items separately, but it isn't that good a deal when you realize you probably wouldn't have bought everything in the package, and the ones you would not have bought are where the real profits lie