Certifying experience/ability of a diver when booking a dive

[dmaziuk]

Was it? Is there a dive operator in this thread who has a problem with their existing booking system that needs solving? And is that problem with on-line vetting of the prospective customers?

If the dive op, for example, requires AOW for dive X, and a customer shows up without AOW and demands they take him on dive X, it may be that the op failed to clearly articulate their requirements. That doesn't require a booking system, it just needs a bold font on a webpage. It may also be that the customer is insufficiently trained -- specifically, back in the elementary school, in their reading comprehension skills. A booking system won't help with that. So, what is the actual problem the OP is trying to solve here?

 

[Bogtrotter]

To streamline the process for both busy ops and ease of use for divers I think is what he indicated. I wasn't aware this was needed myself- perhaps it isn't. The follow up questions seemed to indicate some sort of cursory pre-screening in order to categorize diver's abilities before they arrive..? Hard to do when c-cards are marginalized in the process and dive counts are not thought to be great indicators of diver ability- which was my initial point. Your card is your license to dive- show it and you should be good to go. If there is something unusually challenging about a particular dive site or some doubt by the dive Op based on their questionnaire then let them determine with a dive check.

 

[dmaziuk]

...when c-cards are marginalized in the process and dive counts are not thought to be great indicators of diver ability- which was my initial point.

I just watched someone do a left turn from the right lane into the oncoming bus. A drivers licence is a license to drive and it's no indicator of driving ability. What else's new.

I don't buy it that c-cards are marginalized as a result of the industry lowering the plank, nor that the plank is being lowered. I consequently don't buy it that some pre-check of a diver's ability is required any more, or less, now, than it was required thirty years ago.

(I totally agree that world in general was much better back when I was twenty. I wouldn't want to go back there though.)

 

[Bogtrotter]

Do c-cards hold equal weight now as they did 30 years ago though? Some do and some don't it seems. Does the average rec diver out there have the same skill level as back then? I wasn't into diving 30 years ago so I can't comment from experience on that one.

 

[dmaziuk]

How many can't drive stick anymore?

Dunno about US but where I am from 30 years ago a diving club/group wold be led by an ex-Navy instructor whose training would be... different. Do I need that stuff for splashing around the reef on Bonaire, esp. with a $200 watch that does all the deco calculation for me? $#@! no. But I am not going to book a penetration dive to a wreck at 60 msw and then whine about the shop telling me I'm not qualified, that'd be stupid. The problem is, with people who do that, clever web programming and a central registry of all c-cards won't help you. 'Cause you can't overcome stupid.

 

[chrisch]

But your certification card is your license to dive- it's central, what level you have determines what you should be qualified for. What is the point otherwise?

No it is to certify - to verify - that you have received the training indicated upon it. It's point is to let anyone that cares see you have received that training and met the standard required to get the plastic card and you had the money to buy the training and the card. You don't need any formal training in order to buy and operate scuba diving equipment. You are not "qualified", simply trained. It is up to you whether you follow your training and whether you respect the recommendations that the training organisation suggested for the training you received.

In order to make money it is a good marketing plan to appeal to the competitive nature of humans (especially males) by pretending that the training is in some way a progression towards a greater level of respect amongst one's peers. This can be made more profitable by trite and meaningless appellations to the training like "advanced" diver or "master scuba diver". A clever agency might well offer a folder to put all the cards in as if some collection of trophies - the more expensive and luxurious the folder the more the impression the owner is somehow outstanding, somehow above average. This marketing plan is successful and can equally be applied to equipment choice and so profitability of equipment that offers little if any meaningful differentiation above the routine.

 

[Bob DBF]

Seems to me the OP is painting a liability target on his back when he will certify a diver is qualified to do a dive. Interesting since I see no plan to test the diver in similar conditions.

Even agencies only admit that a diver, at one time, was trained by an instructor to a certain minimum standard certification level, not that they are actually qualified to do the dive.


Bob

 

[Bogtrotter]

I had a fairly rigorous initial cert with NAUI, it was club based and one of the instructors was ex-military. There was an emphasis on fitness and tasking under pressure- and yes competition. Only 5 of what was surely over a dozen students passed, most these days would call that a colossal failure by the instructor and I suppose it was the tail end of a different era. But getting a c-card felt like an accomplishment- oh well.

I have never been denied a dive myself- I’m not in the States either, but I do read on scubaboard and elsewhere about divers being denied dives, or made to pay extra for checkouts, even for dives that aren’t especially unique and might just happen to be to 30M with a bit of current. I gather because issues of litigation are more pronounced in States, and the popularization of diving and fast-tracking training has led to dive ops/boat owners to be more leery. Correct me if I’m wrong but that is the impression I get from afar.

 

[markmud]

I can't speak to the feelings or desires of dive operators, but I can speak to the wishes of one diver.

I wish there was a better system for:

1. Booking a spot on an advertised advanced dive trip and not getting advanced dives (advanced recreational).
2. I wish there was a better system for a dive operator to evaluate divers.

The last "advanced" dive trip I signed-up for wound up at a tame dive spot (newbie site) because two people joined the dive who were less than advanced. (Monterey CA) My buddy and I were losers (again).

I don't enjoy the visual checkout-on-deck that most DMs do to evaluate your skills (verses in water). I dive with a pony and hog loop my primary second stage (I necklace my reserve second stage). Some DMs meltdown when they see my nonstandard rig (non standard for a recreational diver).

I wish there was a better way.

markm

 

[Kermit98]

I have yet to see a boat ask for a cert card in the UK. It's diving for adults here. If you book onto a dive, it's accepted that you are qualified and experienced enough to undertake it. There doesn't seem to be a mass amount of inexperienced divers getting into trouble around here, so it works.

To a degree, its mostly just self policing I think. As UK divers tend to be grouped into clubs or unofficial groups there tends to be someone either in an official capacity (Diving Officers etc) or unofficial (the person making the booking for the group) who would generally stop people doing things that are completely daft.

The individuals turn up, get a rent-a-buddy type situation just isn't as common over here so there is more chance of someone telling an idiot they are being an idiot.

My 2 cent anyway...