Certification

[RJP]

And a flawed premise. Your assumption is that people are incapable of applying what they learned without the aid of a dive professional such as yourself.

I choose my words carefully, and would ask that you not add words I didn't use when characterizing what I've said or make assumptions about what I believe.. I never said anyone was "incapable of applying what they learned" I said that they would be "completely comfortable with rudimentary skills and form." There's no flawed premise there, because rudimentary skills (rudimentary = "involving or limited to basic principles or form") are exactly what even the BEST OW diver will have after only FOUR logged dives.

 

[azmodan50]

So you're suggesting that those folks would be better off doing deep and night dives WITHOUT the benefit of having done AOW first? I'm struggling to understand under what set of circumstances or conditions that might be true.

I'm also unsure why you're assuming that someone who received OW and AOW from a competent, effective instructor will "still have poor skills and be reliant on an instructor."

Umm, after you just chastised someone about adding words to what you said, you shouldn't do the same.

I never said that people would be better off doing night and deep dives without training. Most "smart" people wouldn't dive beyond their training. Therefore, no AOW, no deep or night dives.

I'm not sure why you think that there is any one instructor with the magic ability to take someone from knowing nothing to being a competent advanced diver in such a short time. People get better with practice, not just listening to someone talk. Or maybe you are just not aware of people with different needs or abilities.

I'm not saying that there are not people out there that couldn't be competent divers taking a fast track class. I'm just don't think this is the type of activity that you push someone along as fast as possible without some experience. Why not just train everyone to be an instructor right off the bat?

 

[RJP]

I'm not sure why you think that there is any one instructor with the magic ability to take someone from knowing nothing to being a competent advanced diver in such a short time.

Who said they would be an "advanced diver"? I certainly didn't.

Perhaps you're one of the people under the misperception that "Advanced Open Water Diver" = "Advanced Diver"?

---------- Post added March 14th, 2015 at 07:04 PM ----------

I'm not saying that there are not people out there that couldn't be competent divers taking a fast track class. I'm just don't think this is the type of activity that you push someone along as fast as possible without some experience. Why not just train everyone to be an instructor right off the bat?

The OW to AOW progression is no more "fast track" than taking Algebra II the semester after taking Algebra I.

No one is saying to "push people along as fast as possible" but rather than there's a fair likelihood of some benefit in layering on some additional training early on in someone's dive experience rather than having them "just go dive" instead.

 

[UserNameBella]

Utila has a lot of different types of dive operations. When I got here, I wandered from shop to shop looking for the right one to do some fun dives and my rescue. Here's the low down. Some of them are revolving doors with too many people on a boat, they only give you 2500 psi so you can't stay down an hour and screw up the schedule. Some of the boats are cattle boats that take 20 minutes to off load all the divers. Some are run by drunks and degenerates, while others have a summer camp vibe that I wasn't into. Last but not least, some are great. I gave four a try (I walked right by the dirty dodgy looking ones). I finally settled on coral view. They have an out door salt water pool so you don't have to fight waves on a sand patch while working on your skills. They are super professional and they don't put 20 people on a tiny boat. And their prices are the same. I hope that helps. BTW, do the course and the fun dives and get some input from the instructors and divemasters as to whether you are ready for advanced. They will probably know. I did mine back to back and don't regret it, but some people might not be up for that.

 

[chordrider]

My husband and I took our advanced open water course immediately following our open water certification. I loved it, but the hubster, not so much. It is a personal preference, and everyone moves forward at their own pace. Also, if you have a good OW instructor that makes you confident and comfortable, use that instructor for AOW.

 

[MB NZ]

In my opinion, doing AOW straight after OW is a good idea. AOW is of little more value than simply doing five dives with an instructor, however, it is more time in the water and an opportunity to consolidate the skills you have learnt during the OW course.

 

[Redshift]

Some people seem to prefer AOW straight after the OW so that the new divers keep having the attention of an instructor early on. That seems to be trying to fix some problems coming from not-so-good OW courses and the fact that a diver with 4 dives shouldn't be autonomous. It can also serve to advance some skills, for sure, such as the mentioned buoyancy. That may be more true if the specialty is taken and not just the adventure dive. But I think some things need time to be perfected. A diver paying attention to the body position and practising buoyancy in every dive can evolve independently without needing a course.
That's why I think a few dives after OW are beneficial (a few, not many), so that the new diver gets comfortable with what was taught in OW and practices some things. Then they can concentrate on the new tasks while doing the AOW. The AOW should be trying more to give new knowledge and good different experiences than to be focused on basic skills. Otherwise it becomes even a weaker course than I think it already is. Yes, it can be better with some instructors than others, but if they do the minimum required, it's weak. Maybe that's why there are OW divers doing it straight after OW without any problems. And yet, divers immediately achieve another status, now they are AOW and have a plethora of dives open to them. Are they really that much better and prepared for those dives after 5 more dives?

 

[LarryNJ]

It really seems the responses are about 50/50. I appreciate all the feedback from everyone they all make valid points and have given me many things to consider. Things that certainly never entered my mind.

RJP, I was living in South Jersey but recently moved across the bridge Delaware. I have not really thought much about if or how often we'll be diving when we return home. If after the 10 or 12 days we fall in love I'm sure we'll be looking into it here. If it's something that is fun and we enjoy but not addicted we may simply keep it as an activity a couple times a year on vacations.

As far as dive operator suggestions, if you're staying in town there's about 15 options. I don't know any of them personally but hear UDC mentioned favorably. If you're staying at one of the AI resorts - Laguna Beach, Utopia Village, Deep Blue Utila -

Utila has a lot of different types of dive operations. When I got here, I wandered from shop to shop looking for the right one to do some fun dives and my rescue. Here's the low down. Some of them are revolving doors with too many people on a boat, they only give you 2500 psi so you can't stay down an hour and screw up the schedule. Some of the boats are cattle boats that take 20 minutes to off load all the divers. Some are run by drunks and degenerates, while others have a summer camp vibe that I wasn't into. Last but not least, some are great. I gave four a try (I walked right by the dirty dodgy looking ones). I finally settled on coral view. They have an out door salt water pool so you don't have to fight waves on a sand patch while working on your skills. They are super professional and they don't put 20 people on a tiny boat. And their prices are the same. I hope that helps.

We are not staying at an AI nor will we be staying at one of the dive center dorms. As of now the first week we will be at the Lighthouse. The next few days I was thinking about trying somewhere out of town maybe on the Cays and our last couple days on the mainland maybe to visit the rain forest.


I thought I would choose the shop before going but I guess it makes the most sense to choose one down there after meeting them. Because their locations are close to the Lighthouse I was thinking one of these 3, Altons, UDC or Underwater Visions.

 

[Peter Guy]

Normally I'm a "take AOW soon after OW" person and that is what I suggest to my OW students. BUT, and this is the real issue, it is the instructor (and the shop) that make AOW very good or essentially worthless.

As you are also asking about information for a shop at your destination, you have no idea whether the shop, or the particular instructor, will be the kind that provides good (let alone excellent) instruction or the kind that just ticks off the boxes and does the bare minimum. If the former -- plan on doing AOW -- if the latter -- make sure you have really watched the video (I'm going to assume this will be a PADI class) and listen to what the narrator says about learning how to be neutral, horizontal and quiet in the water.

One thing I would suggest you do, in order to attempt to find a shop/instructor who is more likely to provide the good/excellent experience is to:

a. ASK here on Scubaboard (which you have but do a thread specifically asking);

b. Call the shop and ask a few questions about their teaching:

1. Will they let you do eLearning so that you have the book work done before you get there (and an idea as to what is supposed to be done -- keep a checklist of the skills in the materials and compare to what the instructor does);

2. Does the shop do any "technical" training and would your instructor be "technically trained" -- not a guarantee of good instruction but a clue that the shop and the instructor have gone beyond the basics;

3. Does the shop teach the skills while having you on your knees OR does the shop teach the skills while having your horizontal and neutral (and if they don't understand the difference, you might consider staying away!).

That is what I have told people who ask me for similar advice.

 

[LarryNJ]

One thing I would suggest you do, in order to attempt to find a shop/instructor who is more likely to provide the good/excellent experience is to:

a. ASK here on Scubaboard (which you have but do a thread specifically asking);

b. Call the shop and ask a few questions about their teaching:

1. Will they let you do eLearning so that you have the book work done before you get there (and an idea as to what is supposed to be done -- keep a checklist of the skills in the materials and compare to what the instructor does);

2. Does the shop do any "technical" training and would your instructor be "technically trained" -- not a guarantee of good instruction but a clue that the shop and the instructor have gone beyond the basics;

3. Does the shop teach the skills while having you on your knees OR does the shop teach the skills while having your horizontal and neutral (and if they don't understand the difference, you might consider staying away!).

Thanks, I'll start a thread specifically asking that.

What if I don't understand the difference between number 3? hahaha

I ask one shop about E-learning. This was their response.

E-learning is something I never recommend for people. The couple of hours that the theory component of the course requires them to spend in the classroom with us will be fun! We have great instructors and they'll be welcome to bring snacks and drinks in to the air-con class with them. Plus of course it's a great way to meet and bond with all the other students on the course with them.

Probably the most important reason to do all your learning here is that before they get in the water they will already be familiar with their instructors communication style and methods (don't forget underwater this is all with gestures not words!) and performance expectations. Going all the way through means you should have increased confidence as well as the best shot of getting your in water skills demonstrations right!