Certification cluster

[divinaggie]

Several years ago, my gf decided to get certified. She had been to Cozumel multiple times with me and always watched while I went diving everday and a few evenings while we were down there.

Having DM'd a fair amount of classes while getting my PADI A.I. cert, and having seen the g/f wife & boyfriend/husband dynamic multiple times, I decided to let her do it completly on her own. Worst decision I have ever made and still feel the guilt several years later.

Naui instructor. 1st open water certification dive. Fairly cold water, divers wearing full 6 mil wet suits, etc.. She had complained about the wet suit being "tight" around her chest to the dive shop (not a word to me), was told it would be alright, it will loosen up. After a few minor skills, divers were told to pull an "unconcious diver" (the DM) from the bottom of the pond without inflating the bc or dropping their weights. He weighed well over 250 lbs closer to 300, full 6 mil wet suit, weights etc.. My gf weighs 110 with weights on. Pond 30-40' deep-not sure about that one? When she got about halfway up with him, she was under so much physical stress she hyperventilated. She signaled instructor she basically was out of air. He exhorted her to continue, etc.. She tried to continue, couldnt, dropped the diver, clawed her way to the surface and nearly passed out. While not certain of wether this was a nearly fatal incident, I am certain that her instructor is a certified idiot and shouldnt be teaching anyone anything.

She was administered oxygen on the dock, and was looking pretty green when i pulled up to pick her up. To say I was a little shocked would be to put it mildly. However, I had the presence of mind to really listen to what the instructor and dm version of events were BEFORE I ask any questions of her, the instructor and the dm before rendering any kind of judgement.

On the way home, one of the most pertinent questions i asked her was if they had practiced that "skill" in the pool at the LDS. No. Were they given any instructions on how to do it? Not that she recalled. She is pretty honest when it comes to stuff like that, if she had f'd up, she would have told me.

She was very concerned that she wasnt going to get her certification, and I basically told her that getting back in the water was completely her own decision, but she had to know that the instructor told me the skill had to be completed before he could certify her as well as for the skills she needed to do on the 2nd dive of that afternoon.

She chose to come back the next day, inflated fat butt's bc as much as she could, then watched him rocket to the surface and kind of held on for the ride while exhaling the entire way to the surface (wonder where she got that advice?). Et touche. She got scolded for that, got her cert, and has since become the best dive buddy ever.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

So rather than telling her to ask or demand the instructor demonstrate the proper way to execute the unconscious diver from depth Open Water diver skill you told/suggested that she do something that dangerous to both her and the victim?

Yes it should have been done in the pool first and the instructor screwed up there and should be reported for it. It is an Open Water Diver skill in the NAUI program. As it is in the OW classes I teach. Had she done that to me or one of my assistants there's no way she'd get a card. She would have been shown how to do it. I'd consider her and the diver who told her to do that too dangerous to be diving. And while one I could do nothing about the one the other I could. And my conscience would be clear.

And by the way. Size has nothing to do with it. I have had 12 yr olds less than 90 lbs bring 250 lb divers up from depth. Everyone here screwed up big time. I see nothing to brag about.

 

[Scott]

And welcome to ScubaBoard.

 

[Chilly_Dipper]

Ok seems like the lesson she learned was to perform a dangerous/childish act when faced with an obstacle

I'll admit that I'm not familiar with the NAUI open water skills but I would assume they are fairly similar to the PADI ones, and rescuing a downed diver isn't covered in the PADI OW cert. I have to ask why she would be expected to do this on her first OW dive. That dive should be your basic mask clearing, reg recovery, out of air signally skills. Basically nothing new or difficult since you already have the stress of being in the open ocean for the first time.

Wetsuits are tight in general and the first time many people wear them they feel they are too tight. That being said I know many dive shops over compensate this and undersize suits for students. For instance I was fitted in a XL suit when I did my open water and had trouble breathing when I hit the water. I pushed through that days diving but went back to the dive chart and asked to see the sizing charts for the wetsuits and realized I needed a 2XL for my chest size and height.

Long story short she might have had a dud instructor but you showed a serious lack of judgement for someone who is supposed to be an assistant instructor by persuading her to potentially embolise someone out of spite.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

NAUI teaches unconscious diver from depth, panicked diver at the surface, supporting a diver at the surface while helping them get positive, and rescue tows while stripping gear in the OW class. My NAUI DM crossover class did that the first OW course I assisted with. And if local conditions require it the instructor is free to add and test on other skills (including rescue skills) as a condition of certification.

SEI allows and in fact requires me to do the same.

And the instructor has a lot of discretion as to when skills need to be done. The agency is not the judge of that.

The OW classes are not similar. Not by a long shot depending on the instructor.

 

[Garth]

Jim sounds Concerned. It might have made him feel Uncomfortable to hear you suggest that overinflating an instructors BC to bring him to the surface quickly. I think what Jim was trying to suggest was that rocketing to the surface is a Safety issue.

Point of the discussion is that these aren't CUS words they are simply best practice. To come on here and state that over-inflating someone's wing is funny in retaliation for someone who didn't do their job is reckless.

It would be appropriate to apologize to Jim and we can all congratulate your girlfriend.

Great Job on getting the Certification! Glad you guys are working well together as a team.

 

[Brandon B]

I think some people's pride are getting in the way here. First and foremost Safety should be the key! Glad your G/F passed and got her certification, and you seem competent and safety oriented and as long as you really go over what she should do is the main thing. That's why it's called basic open water and we all know you will learn as you go. Now for the other instructor he should never ask anything of the students he is teaching that they have not went over or he has demonstrated. It's easy to see why your g/f excreted her energy and got into a bad situation. Good thing is she has an experienced diver ( you) who can work with her and train her in the proper and safe way to perform these skills. And no matter what certification you chose, the goal is to dive safe and at the end of the day you both go home to your family's and each other to dive another day. Good luck!

 

[Chilly_Dipper]

---------- Post added August 7th, 2013 at 02:38 PM ----------

And the instructor has a lot of discretion as to when skills need to be done. The agency is not the judge of that.

The OW classes are not similar. Not by a long shot depending on the instructor.

Thanks for the heads up Jim it's always nice to know what the other side of things look like, and I can appreciate the reasons for covering basic rescue techniques in the OW course. I do think the first dive should be basically a cake walk to build a students confidence so task loading should be kept to a minimum until you can scope out how students are handling their first taste of diving.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed but then again it is up to the instructors discretion. I can see the point under some conditions. Task loading is tricky with newer divers. None of mine are the same. It depends on the person. Like the UW Nav student I had weekend before last. Last dive was the combo of compass, natural, and reel use skills. He was doing good so I threw him a curve. 10 ft vis, 100 feet of line or so out, two tie offs with no bottom reference. I advised that he was going to "rescue me" after I "lost my mask". So told him to head out, reeling in the line, while I hung onto his shoulder. He was ok with that. Then just as he was about to start. I tapped him on the shoulder. He looked at me and I whipped my mask off. So he had to manage the reel, buoyuancy, and a maskless diver in 10 ft of vis. He did fine.

When we surfaced he told me he was ok with everything until the mask came off. Then he figured I really trusted him or was crazy.

Had so much fun we are doing wreck at the end of the month and I will throw more curves at him.

 

[openmindOW]

So rather than telling her to ask or demand the instructor demonstrate the proper way to execute the unconscious diver from depth Open Water diver skill you told/suggested that she do something that dangerous to both her and the victim?.

Jim, it is not the duty of the student's boyfriend to make sure that the proper procedures are conducted at OW training dives.

Did you think that a boyfriend, who is not a NAUI professional, can walk up to the Instructor at OW and tell him how to conduct the class? Do you think that the girlfriend might have been a bit embarrassed if he had done that?

---------- Post added August 7th, 2013 at 06:04 PM ----------

She chose to come back the next day, inflated fat butt's bc as much as she could, then watched him rocket to the surface and kind of held on for the ride while exhaling the entire way to the surface (wonder where she got that advice?). Et touche.

I have to agree with Jim LaPenta here. That was not good advice. I would encourage you to encourage your girlfriend to take a proper rescue class.

I am very glad that your girlfriend is still diving and that she is a good buddy.

Keep diving.