Cavern/Intro Experiences

[RichmondKYdiver]

That happens a lot! Folks take cavern and intro courses to improve their diving. A lot of them or wreck diving. Then they realize what the caves are like and it is over.

Congrats on your cavern and Intro. Same thing happened to me, passed my cavern last weekend and already have my first cave intro planned out. It is an awesome environment and community.

 

[LiteHedded]

Hey guys. A good buddy Joe Downing and I just passed Cavern/Intro with Michal Turek as my instructor. I was really nervous about going into the class because I didn't know what to expect. It was straight forward, progressed slowly, everything was clear. If you have your fundamentals mostly down and can keep yourself calm, you'll be fine.

Experiences
I have nothing but positive things to say about Edd Sorenson, Frank, John, and Jay from the shop. I was VERY excited to meet Edd and was afraid of Frank. I'm in college, I'm broke, and I love diving. Frank's fame had preceded him (luckily)...so I was on the look out! Edd took the time to go over TONS of information with us. He showed me his harness, which never made tons of sense to me. After he went over why each one of them was necessary/beneficial, I still wasn't completely convinced....but I understood the decisions. After a few dives, I found great reasons for nearly all of the mods, and found myself wishing I could trade rigs on one dive. After all of our diving was done, Michal met us at the shop Sunday morning to go over the test and finish up paper work. We had a few hours to burn and no diving to do. Because of my financial situation, I knew I couldn't afford all of the mods but definitely needed at least a few of them done. Edd ran out to get some tubing to swap the inflator location, Frank and Jay helped me install everything I could do for free or cheap. They really did everything they could to help me out, even when there was little to nothing in it for them. They advised on relief valves, pointed me in the direction of Steve Gamble, they gave tips and tricks. Edd talked about all of the big names I have been reading about. Absolutely fantastic guy. The only thing he tried to sell me on was that becoming a better diver was a necessity and that sidemount was better than backmounted anything. He told us about fifteen minutes into the first day that he refused to sugar coat or euphemise anything, and that was true. He said what he thought no matter what, and he never seemed to have any agenda in what he told us. What he said seemed learned purely from experience.

Now, for Michal. I told him I liked Edd's no-BS policy as I've adopted a similar thing in my life. I've already passed, so I don't need to butter him up. What I say is honestly the truth. I've been working on sidemount for SEVERAL months now, and I progressed more in sidemount in 3 days with Michal than in months of diving without him. He did more for my trim and buoyancy than months of focusing on trim and buoyancy alone. I was okay before him, but he really forced it all to get better. He was extremely patient. Joe and I had TONS of questions for him, which I'm sure got old quickly. One thing he did that I loved was he explained WHY. I'm an engineer, so answers are completely useless without a reason WHY. They won't stick, I won't absorb them. I can remember them, but I won't LEARN them. Michal was extremely knowledgeable. He frequently dives well above the level he was teaching us at, so his ability to have "foresight" into the world of diving and where we can expect to go was fantastic. Not once did he answer a question or tell us a rule without a very logical explanation, an example of how that could apply short-term, and an example of how that could apply long term. Michal is not a big name. I searched for him on the forums but could only find one review. Well, I'll tell you that I'd recommend him to everybody I know. The only negative thing I can say about him is that he has too much integrity to pass you just because it's easier than failing you....failing was something I was originally afraid of after spending the time and money to take the class. He told us directly that he didn't care about our feelings, being unsafe was unforgivable and he would NOT pass us. If you want to learn, go to Michal. If you want an easy C-card, go to somebody else. I'll be back to Michal when I get the time and money to keep progressing in my learning...and I'll be practicing until then to make him proud (and to pass Full Cave, and to not die in a cave).

meh

why?

 

[victorzamora]

I was just saying that that was Edd's opinion that he was selling me on....not that I completely agree with it. I think they're both tools for different jobs, each with its own pros and cons. One of the main cons of SM is the lack of standardization. Well, that doesn't really bug me. You seem properly DIR-decked out, so the lack of standardization probably bugs you...but lugging around an extremely awkward 100# set of tanks doesn't bother you. It does me. Plus, I can't travel with doubles since I like to fly....so SM works for me.

This argument is all over SB, but I think his main points were:
1) For the diving he does he NEEDS sidemount....why should he risk reducing SM proficiency by diving BM?
2) Any dive you can do BM, you can do in SM. Same can't be said the other way around.

 

[Superlyte27]

2) Any dive you can do BM, you can do in SM.

That's not even close to reality.
Well, I guess if you really want to work hard it is. I can take you through passages that are very narrow and low, where you'd be forced to take off your tanks in sidemount, but you can just scrape by in backmount. Or I can take you on very long dives where many stages are required. Have you ever seen the pain in the butt it is to stack up five stages plus a deco bottle in sidemount?

I can show you a few boat charters running to the 200'+ range hot dropping you on the wreck, that won't allow you to sidemount.

But you were right in saying, "it's a tool". Both have their benefits. No system is best for every aspect of diving. Anyone who tells you differently has an agenda or limited intellect.

 

[LiteHedded]

I was just saying that that was Edd's opinion that he was selling me on....not that I completely agree with it. I think they're both tools for different jobs, each with its own pros and cons. One of the main cons of SM is the lack of standardization. Well, that doesn't really bug me. You seem properly DIR-decked out, so the lack of standardization probably bugs you...but lugging around an extremely awkward 100# set of tanks doesn't bother you. It does me. Plus, I can't travel with doubles since I like to fly....so SM works for me.

This argument is all over SB, but I think his main points were:
1) For the diving he does he NEEDS sidemount....why should he risk reducing SM proficiency by diving BM?
2) Any dive you can do BM, you can do in SM. Same can't be said the other way around.

i agree with those two things you said

this new push to call sidemount the best option for everything smacks of the old george stuff. substituting 'sidemount' for 'dir'

 

[bamafan]

How can you not agree with #2 above. I can't think of a dive that you can't do sidemount. But I can think of plenty of dives that you can't do backmount. Now I am not saying that some dives are not easier in backmount. But baring some boat captains restriction I can not think of a dive that could not be done sidemount. I agree that both styles have there place but I do think sidemount is more versatile and if you could only dive one it would be sidemount for me.

 

[LiteHedded]

the last double scooter, four stage, three deco gas dive I did would give you fits in sidemount.

*edit* roll tide.

 

[TSandM]

Sidemount is the new black . . .

There are appealing things to diving sidemount. But I still love the fact that I can go somewhere and borrow somebody else's equipment, and after a couple quick strap length adjustments, every single thing is completely familiar, and what's more, works exactly as I expect it to. Still, Edd is entitled to his opinion and his reasons. He's done a little more cave diving than I have . . .

 

[Akroedge540]

SM vs. BM, Long hose vs short hose, DIR vs. whatever else. To me none of it matters, I sidemount and love it. I've never dove doubles but eventually I'd like to, just for the experience. When I see a person in doubles I'm just as interested in their gear as the rebreather dude parked next to me. I am just as elated on a cavern dive as others are pushing restrictions or truly exploring never before seen caves. What I'm getting at is no matter what kind of diving you do, what equipment you use, it all boils down to one thing. Did you have fun?

 

[victorzamora]

I agree with you, Akro. I like learning from WHOEVER is near me: BM/SM/RB....I want to know what they're diving. However, I don't think I've ever looked at a set of doubles fondly. I will say, Akro, I absolutely had fun. I think it's the most enjoyable 4 days of diving I've ever had. My dad would hate to hear that, as he's taken me on several GREAT dive trips.....but he doesn't read forums

I know people that dive six full-sized tanks with nothing on their backs. I think that maybe at six tanks I'd back mount two and sidemount four, but I can't say for sure. However, tons of tanks isn't necessarily a reason to support backmounted tanks.