I was having a discussion with my friend about caving diving accident statistics. I thought that the majority of incidents in caves were from people who were not qualified to be in a cave. My friend's point was that cave diving is very dangerous and that the majority of incidents are qualified cave divers that had some sort of problem. Just wondering if anyone could direct us to some statistics. Thanks.
Cave Diving Statistics
- Thread starter vel525
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vel525:
The vast majority of deaths occur from open water divers and instructors who think their experience qualifies them to be in a cave.
Statistically, trained cave divers are among the safest divers. In the accidents that do occur among trained cave divers, there are only two known incidents that come to mind where they followed all 5 rules of accident analysis and still died.
I dont have the stats handy, but can probably dig them up if someone else doesnt post them first.
H2Andy
Contributor
i don't have the statistics handy, but the trend lately has been a drop in
overall cave fatalities in the last 20 years, with more and more deaths while diving caves coming from trained cave divers
almost inveriably, the result of the death is exceeding the diver's training or
ability level. also, the fact that non-trained divers aren't going into caves
and dying is testament to the information that cave divers and their organizations
have put out there for the non-cave certified divers (and the nifty
"you'll die" signs everywhere these days)
lesson: even though you are cave trained, you don't have a license to do dives
in caves beyond your ability and training.
of the last five cave fatalities i am aware of, all five were highly trained
cave divers.
overall cave fatalities in the last 20 years, with more and more deaths while diving caves coming from trained cave divers
almost inveriably, the result of the death is exceeding the diver's training or
ability level. also, the fact that non-trained divers aren't going into caves
and dying is testament to the information that cave divers and their organizations
have put out there for the non-cave certified divers (and the nifty
"you'll die" signs everywhere these days)
lesson: even though you are cave trained, you don't have a license to do dives
in caves beyond your ability and training.
of the last five cave fatalities i am aware of, all five were highly trained
cave divers.
I don't have any exact numbers handy either (and I'm not a caver, but I read a lot about it because it fascinates me) but there have been several hundred deaths in Florida since the late 1950s (in the 400-500 range) but it was really bad in the 1960s/70s before there was any organization or training, and open water divers were dropping like flies. After the Exley/Skiles 5 rules came about, the overall numbers dropped dramatically.
The first rule of accident analysis seems to be the most deadly: Training.
Exceeding your level of training killed more in the 70's (non trained divers) and diving beyond their training is catching up with more of todays trained cave divers.
Exceeding your level of training killed more in the 70's (non trained divers) and diving beyond their training is catching up with more of todays trained cave divers.
H2Andy
Contributor
the IUCRR site has a lot of information. for example, here's their incident
reports:
http://www.iucrr.org/aa.htm
they also have an analysis of fatalities from 1950 to 1998:
http://www.iucrr.org/aa.htm
reports:
http://www.iucrr.org/aa.htm
they also have an analysis of fatalities from 1950 to 1998:
http://www.iucrr.org/aa.htm
no exact numbers handy here either, but i would guess that a good part of it is ppl "trying " to be cavedivers because they read a book. anyway on a more serious note, there are very little accidents (i know of - as a non cave diver, but wreck / deep guy and following things generally closely) that you cant bring together with "extreme diving". while any kind of deep / wreck / cave dives with incidents usually makes a lot of media stir, it is a very small part of accidents (often enough final - what gets the press) really happen to experienced, well trained technical divers. the problem, imho, this days is the "wannabe" read the book, did my owd, bought a ton of gear and now need adventure diver. (unfortunately) books are readily available labled as "blueprint to extreme...... whatever (fill it in yourself)" and ppl believe they can just do it that way.
often the lds doesnt really help, they sell that gear to them without serious questioning and counseling. have seen them (and you will never lose this quota - sorry cant call it diff - of idiots) and they give technical diving a bad rep and high insurance fees. the other end are the "have to do things nobody did before..." guys, usually well trained, prepaired and dont claim anybody should try that. but, somebody has to push the envelope - otherwise we still wouldnt have nitrox, trimix, solo courses etc., halfway commonly available. as the vonage ad on tv says - ...people do stupid things....
so, back to the beginning - no i dont think there are more significant cave or for that matter tech in general incidents (by ppl trained for what they do), but more accidents of ppl that believe they are tech (cave, deep, wreck etc.) divers because they watched a video / read a book and feel like they are.........
often the lds doesnt really help, they sell that gear to them without serious questioning and counseling. have seen them (and you will never lose this quota - sorry cant call it diff - of idiots) and they give technical diving a bad rep and high insurance fees. the other end are the "have to do things nobody did before..." guys, usually well trained, prepaired and dont claim anybody should try that. but, somebody has to push the envelope - otherwise we still wouldnt have nitrox, trimix, solo courses etc., halfway commonly available. as the vonage ad on tv says - ...people do stupid things....
so, back to the beginning - no i dont think there are more significant cave or for that matter tech in general incidents (by ppl trained for what they do), but more accidents of ppl that believe they are tech (cave, deep, wreck etc.) divers because they watched a video / read a book and feel like they are.........
douglasville diver
Contributor
Thanks for the links h2andy as I'm moving into cave from cavern this is the sort of reading I need.
Come to think of it ALL divers could benifit from the iucrr web site.
Come to think of it ALL divers could benifit from the iucrr web site.
serambin
Guest
Dan's report on dive injuries puts cave diving 5th in accident rating. It appears to be less than 10% of all injuries (2005), but does represent 15 % of all fatalities. I guess that you could read this as - cave divers are generally safer, but when they get in trouble, it represents a higher level of danger. The largest group, by far, are recreational divers between the ages of 30-39 diving in the Caribbean area.
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