Cave CCR - On board gas management

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OP
Laminappropria

Laminappropria

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What are your thoughts are on onboard gas management for cave ccr diving. Do you follow thirds like you would for other gasses? Do you follow thirds for scrubber duration? During my course no mention was made of this and now I am getting very different and very strong opinions from different people. (I dive a sidewinder and in the standard configuration you can't monitor O2 pressure during the dive.)
 
Would be keen to hear best practices as well.

My understanding (may be wrong): scrubber duration planned as for OW (1/2 in, 1/2 out – with whatever conservatism you feel comfortable with), BO gases calculated to be sufficient from the turning point to exit in OC. In Dil/Out setup the dil consumption before turning is negligible and the difference should be well within the safety margin used to calculate SAC rate.
 
(I dive a sidewinder and in the standard configuration you can't monitor O2 pressure during the dive.)
Thirds on O2 is likely the limiting factor. Plan the max penetration time based on a realistic consumption rate for the conditions, and you don't really need to monitor O2 pressure. Thirds gives you a reserve to use if you take longer to exit (e.g., zero vis).

Gauge before & after the dive as a basis for any adjustment to your consumption rate for future planning. Your class should have covered SCR, which should get you home if you run out of O2 (regardless of cause: bad planning, blown hose, whatever).
 
(I dive a sidewinder and in the standard configuration you can't monitor O2 pressure during the dive.)

Uh, what? How on earth is that accepted as 'standard'? Put a SPG on it or a transmitter. I have a transmitter on my O2 and my 2 sidemount bottles (little overkill but I still like seeing my pressures easily, we had a local cave diver die b/c his reg was free flowing while DPVing and didn't notice until it was to late). I can see the pressures on both my Perdix and Petrel and I still monitor the gas in them during the dive.

Personally yes, I still use rule of 1/3's for all consumables as I was taught (scrubber/o2), however that is apparently a bit of contention here on SB as not all agencies follow this and scrubber duration for the sidewinder is highly dependent on the diver and conditions so there's no 'set duration' for everyone or even every dive. As I was taught in my Cave CCR class you basically should build up experience and not just start doing max penetrations right out of the gate, build up knowledge and determine what you limits are in various conditions. I do a BO gas calculation for my OC gas to make sure I have enough to exit from the deepest penetration + extra in the event of hypercapnia.
 
I don’t have a SPG of any sort on my O2 bottle, used to have a button SPG, but I don’t like the reliability of those things, took it off and procedure is the same, check pressure on assembly/predive, I just have to check it with a pressure checker or a different reg, a small inconvenience. Once in the water I don’t need to check it, consumption is based on metabolic rate and is depth independent, I’d have to over exert myself significantly to make a difference in that consumption, if that were to happen, other issues would arise before O2 reserves becomes the problem.

I use a 3L bottle and the O2 usage is so “little” I even stoped plugging in my O2 BO bottle on dives resulting in ~1 hour of deco, even with the O2 flushes off of the 3L, I’d still end up with about a half full bottle.

There’s only one hose attached to O2 reg(with an OPV) and it sits right by my head, hose goes over my shoulder to MAV on chest Dring, everything is close by, I think I’ll catch a leak, specially one of any significance, not to mention I’d still have SCR option as well as full bailout in case of total O2 loss.


Uh, what? How on earth is that accepted as 'standard'? Put a SPG on it or a transmitter. I have a transmitter on my O2 and my 2 sidemount bottles (little overkill but I still like seeing my pressures easily, we had a local cave diver die b/c his reg was free flowing while DPVing and didn't notice until it was to late). I can see the pressures on both my Perdix and Petrel and I still monitor the gas in them during the dive.

Personally yes, I still use rule of 1/3's for all consumables as I was taught (scrubber/o2), however that is apparently a bit of contention here on SB as not all agencies follow this and scrubber duration for the sidewinder is highly dependent on the diver and conditions so there's no 'set duration' for everyone or even every dive. As I was taught in my Cave CCR class you basically should build up experience and not just start doing max penetrations right out of the gate, build up knowledge and determine what you limits are in various conditions. I do a BO gas calculation for my OC gas to make sure I have enough to exit from the deepest penetration + extra in the event of hypercapnia.

Was the reg attached to his O2 bottle? Probably not, so I think the free flow was from one of the dilout bottle? I know accidents are rarely one thing and rather a cascade of events, so here in this case I’m assuming the same, because otherwise we have at least one other BO bottle full and a fully functioning CCR?
 
What are your thoughts are on onboard gas management for cave ccr diving. Do you follow thirds like you would for other gasses? Do you follow thirds for scrubber duration? During my course no mention was made of this and now I am getting very different and very strong opinions from different people. (I dive a sidewinder and in the standard configuration you can't monitor O2 pressure during the dive.)
When i was diving a sidewinder, i've used a SPG
 
When I did mod1 on a SW nor my instructors rig, nor the one I rented from him had an SPG… in hindsight, I realize it’s a weak link
Just my 2Ls
 
Was the reg attached to his O2 bottle? Probably not, so I think the free flow was from one of the dilout bottle? I know accidents are rarely one thing and rather a cascade of events, so here in this case I’m assuming the same, because otherwise we have at least one other BO bottle full and a fully functioning CCR?

Sorry, I should have been more clear, he was on OC, I was just making the point that I always want to know the pressures of all my gasses. In this incident they were doing a deep cave dive (160+) in doubles on trimix with 1 stage and 1 Nx for travel gas/deco which they dropped before going deep. He was using the stage for the deep part of the dive and planned to switch to BM gas when they emptied the stage. There were 3 divers and when they turned the dive one of them was almost empty of their BM gas (the thought is while DPVing the reg was purging the entire time). Two of them shared gas for a while the 3rd didn't know anything was wrong. Stuff happened and they got separated during their deco stops (where they had staged gas), when the 2 divers exited their buddy wasn't there. He was later recovered.
 
During my CCR cave course we were taught that scrubber duration was part of she dive planning and we planned on thirds of scrubber duration. We normally had far more oxygen onboard than we did scrubber life. I’m not comfortable planning on 1/2 in/1/2 out.

Bailout planning was based on max planned penetration. Figure out how much gas you need to get out from the absolute worst place and take 1.5 times that amount of gas.
 

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