Catalina Island - Diver dies while Lobstering

[lobstah]

Second, the bug population seemed to have declined noticeably over the past few days. Strictly anecdotal and not scientific. It probably had more to do with the surge that picked up than divers taking them... I hope.

There were broken off antennas lying on a ground on Sunday. There are definitely people taking them out at night at the park.

 

[Codyjp]

It seems like we have to have this discussion in every accident thread. Read the stickies associated with the forum, particularly the one entitled, "If I should die while diving." The forum is intended for the analysis of accidents with an eye towards gleaning lessons that might prevent other accidents. In the absence of witnesses--which is usually the case--the precise circumstances generally will remain unknown. Nevertheless, we try to learn what we can. In this thread, a reader can learn some of the risks of diving at night, on crowded boats, with minimal recent experience, in a challenging diving environment. That is a valuable lesson, even if the victim died for reasons totally different from these. And it is a lesson that is more likely to make an impression on the reader precisely because somebody may have recently died for these reasons. Nobody has been disrespectful to the deceased. If threads like this bother you, I'd suggest you don't read them.

It is impossible to acuratly analyze an accident without facts of the event.

If the participants here want to discuss hypotheticals then why not just make up some scenarios and then discuss the causes and events involved with this scenario until you've beaten the horse to death.

So far this death has been pinned on; full boats, night diving, lack of equipment maintenance, inexperience, tired crew, bad buddies, distractions etc. For all we know the guy could have had a seizure.

I just find it odd how much effort people put into guessing.

 

[Leejnd]

It is impossible to acuratly analyze an accident without facts of the event.

If the participants here want to discuss hypotheticals then why not just make up some scenarios and then discuss the causes and events involved with this scenario until you've beaten the horse to death.

So far this death has been pinned on; full boats, night diving, lack of equipment maintenance, inexperience, tired crew, bad buddies, distractions etc. For all we know the guy could have had a seizure.

I just find it odd how much effort people put into guessing.

I don't find it odd at all. If you've spent any time in this forum at all, you would know that that's most of what goes on in here. There is usually little to go on until long after the event - so we have no choice but to guess. It's either that, or not talk about it at all.

You are correct that without the actual, verified, facts, we can't accurately analyze it. But is there value in these types of discussions, even without all the facts? Clearly many of us think so.

As for why we do it - I can't speak for everyone, but I can say for myself, it boils down to: I don't want to die diving. When we talk about all the things that can and do lead to diver fatalities, we are learning, gaining understanding, and in at least some measure, reducing the likelihood that it will happen to us.

As for all the things this death has been "pinned on" - none of us in THIS thread have "pinned" it on anything. We've speculated, postulated, guessed, and discussed. All of those issues CAN lead to diver accidents. Did they lead to this one? We don't know. But just by virtue of reminding each other, and ourselves, that these things CAN lead to accidents, we have taken one more step towards reducing the cases in which it DOES.

If you don't have any interest in these types of discussions, this might not be a good forum for you to spend time in. It seems to bother you. But if you read the rules for this forum, and scroll through the threads in here, you will see that this is primarily what goes on here.

If you find it to be of no value...don't read it! Many of us do.

 

[bsee65]

Not to mention that a report with all the facts won't generate nearly as much discussion. Read a thread where someone has a heart attack under water and the buddy brings them back to the surface for medical attention and the causes are pretty clear. There might be a few posts on fitness and medical checkouts for older divers, but you won't findd pages of speculation.

As divers, we have to respect the unknown. Thinking about all these things before they might happen helps us to dive more safely. There is almost never anything here for the courts, and it's often a toss-up whether discussions would comfort or upset family and friends.

 

[Abidon]

Please do not mistake this as being disrespectful. All we can do in this forum is try to learn from these incidents. If one inexperienced diver, thinking about going out bug-hunting without having kept up his skills, reads this thread and RETHINKS it, and maybe even does some work to gain experience and improve his skills before he goes a-hunting, then you guys can throw all the darts at me you want...my speculating, assuming, and conclusion-jumping has done it's job.

I resemble that remark.:wavey: I can still count on two hands the number of dives I've had since OW certification a year ago. One of those dives was the manta ray night dive in Kona at a depth of 30' a few months ago. Please don't take this as bragging, but it also happens to be one the easiest dives I've done since certification... and definitely the coolest.:cool3:

Based on that experience alone, I may have had no second thoughts if someone invited me to go on a night dive for lobsters at a 30' depth here in the So Cal waters. After reading this thread, and others like it, I now know better, and would probably decline until I gained more experience.

BTW, what is the safest/best way to get experience diving at night here in Southern California? Are there certain spots that a beginner like me can dive safely at night with an experienced buddy?

 

[ligersandtions]

BTW, what is the safest/best way to get experience diving at night here in Southern California? Are there certain spots that a beginner like me can dive safely at night with an experienced buddy?

There are lots of good places for new divers to learn to night dive in socal (with an experienced buddy). However, that's not really a good discussion topic for this thread, so come join us in the socal subforum and set up some dives. There are lots of local active divers who are happy to take new divers out!


Back on topic....I was really hoping to not have to read one of those "a lobster diver died on opening night" threads Monday morning, but unfortunately we were not so lucky. My thoughts go out to the family and friends. It's truly unfortunate that this seems to happen every year (I don't know as I've only been around for two lobster seasons....just over a year of experience here). I wish there was a good way to prevent it....but it seems that the people reading SB and being reminded that they need to keep diving year-round to be as safe as possible on opening night are not necessarily the ones who need it....

I will be waiting for more details as they come out.

 

[Leejnd]

I resemble that remark.:wavey: I can still count on two hands the number of dives I've had since OW certification a year ago. One of those dives was the manta ray night dive in Kona at a depth of 30' a few months ago. Please don't take this as bragging, but it also happens to be one the easiest dives I've done since certification... and definitely the coolest.:cool3:

Based on that experience alone, I may have had no second thoughts if someone invited me to go on a night dive for lobsters at a 30' depth here in the So Cal waters. After reading this thread, and others like it, I now know better, and would probably decline until I gained more experience.

BTW, what is the safest/best way to get experience diving at night here in Southern California? Are there certain spots that a beginner like me can dive safely at night with an experienced buddy?

I rest my case.

 

[Teamcasa]

BTW, what is the safest/best way to get experience diving at night here in Southern California? Are there certain spots that a beginner like me can dive safely at night with an experienced buddy?

Join a club/group or here Beach Crabs - ScubaBoard and go over to the dive park on Catalina. It's a great place to get night diving practice.

 

[overkillphil]

Just read this... Gamera Baenre

 

[Teamcasa]

Just read this... Gamera Baenre

From the link above:

At one point, Jesus pulled his gauge and pointed to it, for which she then understood the signal to look at her own gauge. She sees that she has 1500 lbs of air, so she suggests that they head towards shallow water, and head towards 50 feet. During this time, she loses sight of him around the 50 feet mark. While doing her safety stop, she runs into a diver with the same build and similar lobster bag; and believes that she has been reunited with her dive buddy. But upon looking into the divers eyes, sees that they are blue and the diver is not Jesus. She then surfaces. I do not know if Jesus was already brought on board by this time, or if he was brought on board after she returned. She noted at at the chamber, she looked at his gauge and it was at 0 air. She also mentioned that they were down at 90 feet for about 12-18 minutes; and that Jesus gave no indication that he was low or out of air – the standard hand signals, and reiterated that he only motioned towards his air gauge – for which she understood as a signal to look at hers.