Ca't access my shears...????

[rcohn]

Spectre,

Wow, what can I possibly say?

Sadly, your posts say it all.

Maybe you'd like to explain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US." Exactly what is "_everything_ that would come into play in that sense?"

Ralph

 

[Spectre]

rcohn once bubbled...
Maybe you'd like to expain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US."

I believe I've already explained myself and the question is sitting on your table. You seem to be implying that there is no way to take a fatal DCS hit when diving within recreational diving limits, and there is no way that an unconcious diver can be killed when ascending from depth.

If that is true, I'd like to see the proof. Until such time, I prefer to not try and test your theories.

 

[rcohn]

Only a fool would try to prove a negative. Show me one example of a diver, diving within the No Decompression Limits, who died from explosive decompression (not AGE) after a rapid ascent.

Unconscious divers (again within the NDLs) should be brought to the surface under control, dropping the weight is the last option if nothing else works. Rescue courses will teach this. You might only need to drop their weights if there was a total BC failure or they were grossly overweighted in the first place. Again, it is a training issue if you or your buddies are planning to just drop weights and shoot an unconscious diver to the surface. Also why in the world would you imagine dropping a 6 lb belt is safe for an unconscious diver but a heavier belt is dangerous ("I have been working on finding ways to distribute my weight enough to have a weight belt that would be safely ditchable.")?

Weights might need to be dropped on a conscious diver for a deep OOA buoyant ascent or to escape a major downcurrent. A conscious diver can exhale and avoid embolism. Weights might also need to be dropped as a last resort in extreme circumstances to try to save a sinking or badly narked diver who is completely uncontrollable otherwise. For example see: http://www.scubadiving.com/talk/read.php?f=1&i=522718&t=522718 this was a case where dropping the weights would have been a reasonable response.

Finally since you avoided answering my question I'll repeat it. Maybe you'd like to explain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US." Exactly what is _everything_ that would come into play in that sense?"

Ralph

 

[Spectre]

rcohn stated...

Finally since you avoided answering my question I'll repeat it. Maybe you'd like to explain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US." Exactly what is _everything_ that would come into play in that sense?"

The subject of that post was not indicative of the true indication. The "If you feel you need to sentence me to death" in my dive briefings is stated in jest... there are a number of people on this board that have heard that lecture. It is ment to emphasise the "as an absolute last resort". Once again, the fact that I brief my dive buddies on exactly how to release my weights is evidence that I feel there is a place for the release of weights.

I never once stated anything regarding embolisms, which you seemed to assume and then use to make judgements about my diving skill. "everything that comes into play" involves exactly that. You assumed I was referring to embolisms, I was referring to _every_ risk involved with dropping a weight belt at depth.

I'm going to assume that you don't actually believe that dropping a weight belt is a safe endeavor. So we are arguing to the same final result... dropping a weight belt at depth should be done as an absolute last result. If you don't agree with the way I communicate that with my buddies, I don't care... I don't dive with you [and after this thread, probably won't].

Show me one example of a diver, diving within the No Decompression Limits, who died from explosive decompression (not AGE) after a rapid ascent.

I'm not going to argue the death point anymore. Ok... perhaps your right, and the only way I can end up dead from a rapid ascent is in my own lack of skills. But 1) I don't feel like testing that theory, and 2) I know how to release my weight belt. If my buddy is releasing my weight belt, then _my_ skills have nothing to do with the situation.

Rescue courses will teach this.

Yes I know that. However the fact of the matter is Open Water courses teach it's ok to drop a weight belt, but don't go into nearly enough depth necessary for students to truely understand it. Sure, an OW student thinking dropping a weight belt on the surface is fine, but I want to make _sure_ anyone I dive with knows it's a last resort at depth.

Also why in the world would you imagine dropping a 6 lb belt is safe for an unconscious diver but a heavier belt is dangerous ("I have been working on finding ways to distribute my weight enough to have a weight belt that would be safely ditchable.")?

Your putting words in my mouth. All dive planning must be done with the worst case scenario in mind. So the worst case scenaro in loosing a 20# weight belt is that you are now 20# positive. I personally don't believe I can physically control an ascent when 20# positive. I also don't believe that a buddy will be able to control _me_ when I'm 20# positive.

The fact of the matter is Rapid ascents are extremely risky I know that, you know that. I chose to communicate that to my buddies a different way than you, but that doesn't change the facts that it's risky.

Now I've got better things to do with my life than get into one of your "I'm going to argue something completely rediculous because I'm a scuba god" debates, and I'm sorry I got involved in the first place.

However... I don't make assumptions to your diving skill or experience. You don't know s**t about mine, and therefore I would appreciate if you didn't make assumptions about them to help you build up your stupid soapboxes.

 

[rcohn]

Spectre once bubbled...
I never once stated anything regarding embolisms, which you seemed to assume and then use to make judgements about my diving skill. "everything that comes into play" involves exactly that. You assumed I was referring to embolisms, I was referring to _every_ risk involved with dropping a weight belt at depth.

I'm not going to argue the death point anymore. Ok... perhaps your right, and the only way I can end up dead from a rapid ascent is in my own lack of skills.

Ok, now we're making some progress, there is no "everything that comes into play", that was just a bit of attempted smoke and mirrors, you now realize that the only realistic risk of death comes from embolism.

Spectre once bubbled...
Now I've got better things to do with my life than get into one of your "I'm going to argue something completely rediculous because I'm a scuba god" debates, and I'm sorry I got involved in the first place.

I've never considered myself a scuba god, there are too many divers around with far more extensive experience than mine. We're all still learning. I do sometimes try to pass on some of the knowledge I've acquired. When I am clueless on a subject, I keep my mouth shut. I make relatively few posts, in nearly two years on this board I've only posted 358 times, you on the other hand have 674 posts in just four months.

Let's look at your very recent record of 'informative' posts that I have noticed.

You advised a diver who had taken a very serious CNS hit with residual symptoms that it was ok to continue diving "Yes... your doctor won't like it, and it's a risk, but yea, if your careful you can continue diving." http://www.scubaboard.com/t12634/s.html

You told a diver switching from salt to fresh water that he only need 1 additional pound of lead, "The difference between fresh and salt water is about 3%, so you'd only need to add a pound for the bouyancy difference." http://www.scubaboard.com/t12676/s.html

And of course my favorite "I have no doubts that dropping a 20# belt at depth will result in my death." Note nothing is said in here about being unconscious. http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12804&perpage=15&display=&pagenumber=1

These are just a few of your helpful and informative posts that I happened to read recently. Unfortunately for you, if you consider that correcting complete nonsense and misinformation is arguing "something completely rediculous" you'll just have to get used to it, I'm going to continue.

Ralph

 

[Spectre]

My apologies to everyone... I'll be moving this to private mail...