Canon S100

[muzikbiz22]

Hmmm...

I was just on the verge of buying a S95, mainly for underwater use. Should I snap one up now before they are gone? Seems like many are saying the S95 will be better than the S100 for underwater use.

I would say yes to the S95. Nemrod and ozziworld are correct, in that the "improvements" of the S100 are more like new "challenges" than "solutions" for us underwater folk. I'm sticking with my S90/Fix S90/UWL-04 rig, if that means anything to you. I've been waiting for Canon to see what was next, i.e. S100, because I wanted to add a second/backup camera/rig. Now that I have seen what's coming, my next move(s) are either find another S90 (camera only, possibly another Fix housing as a back-up if I can find), or I may just grab an S95 "on sale", and get a RecSea or Fix housing to go with.

 

[girellator]

Lenses for micro 4/3 are really expensive !! And you loose the versatility underwater of the compact camera

 

[Dunx]

here's a side by side image with the lens specs. Doesn't seem to be a super long lens, only x5 instead of x3.8. and the wide end being 24mm should just mean that you have to zoom to 28mm for compatible wet lenses, no?

 

[chris196]

you guys are making assumptions about the lense which just aren't known yet.
It may be that the wide end is at the extended end of the lense, similar to the S90/S95.
If so, it's a non issue.
Just too early to tell.

 

[swee sin]

take your old S series and see the lens zoom movement.
it move backward first then only extend out.
My S90 35mm is shorter than 28mm.

 

[Nemrod]

you guys are making assumptions about the lense which just aren't known yet.

Nope, I can only speak for myself but I am not making assumptions. I am making an educated statement based on experimentation over the last five years or so using a variety of wet mount lenses. I think I can say that for certain very few people have owned as many wet mount lenses as me and tested them to the extent I have on a variety of cameras. More than enough to fully understand what they need in terms of a camera to function correctly optically without my making excessive assumptions.

It may be that the wide end is at the extended end of the lense, similar to the S90/S95. If so, it's a non issue.
Just too early to tell.

No, it is an issue, the rack distance of the 5X lens ratio on the S100 will be greater than the approximate 3.8X of the S90/95. As well, the now 24mm lens will require further zooming and the longer 5X lens will require a longer port thus placing the wet mount lens too far from the camera lens.

It may be that the new Inon H100 lens or that the Oly lens used on the XZ-1 might work due to their very large rear optical element but the Inon WAL100, Inon WAL100-28AD, Inon UFL165AD, Ikelite W20, Fisheye UWL-04 and similar will not work without excessive zooming and vignetting.

So, OK, it is 24mm, does it need a wide angle lens and the answer is a big yes. A 24mm lens behind a flat port is hardly wide at all and will have distortion and diffraction in the corners. If corrected with a dome it would have a 90 degree DFOV. But, the Inon UFL165AD or the Fisheye UWL-04 on the S90 with the original FIX housing or S95 with the Recsea housing have over 130 degrees and closer to 150 degree DFOV. This neither is an assumption since I have measured it.

BTW, the S series lens, as is common on many compact cameras from Canon and others, actually gets shorter (retracts) as you initially zoom and then about half way through the range it begins to extend and finally extends further than the minimum focal length starting position. Since the S100 has the same size sensor, basically the same size optical elements and a greater zoom range, it will need to rack further in and out to accommodate the focal range than the S90/S95. It is not an assumption, it is optical physics.

The S100 is going to be a real challenge for wet mount wide angle and ultra wide lenses. I suspect it will do OK with the UCL165 macro and perhaps that new Inon macro dome lens, UFL-M150. Like I said, I would not yet rule out the Inon UWL-H100. Since I do not own either of these, I have not been able to measure their optical requirements as I have for many of the other common lenses.

N

 

[shaker]

"Manual power adjustment in 3 levels (internal flash)"
Does it mean, still no TTL in manual mode?

 

[Nemrod]

"Manual power adjustment in 3 levels (internal flash)"
Does it mean, still no TTL in manual mode?

Well, yes, there is no hot shoe. But, if using an Inon strobe you can use the strobe in External Auto exposure mode and accomplish a similar result.

N

 

[flareside]

Nope, I can only speak for myself but I am not making assumptions. I am making an educated statement .....

No, it is an issue, the rack distance of the 5X lens ratio on the S100 will be greater than the approximate 3.8X of the S90/95. As well, the now 24mm lens will require further zooming and the longer 5X lens will require a longer port thus placing the wet mount lens too far from the camera lens.

Oh, Omnipotent One...

If you didn't have such an ego you would know you are guessing like everybody else. Your reference basis of the S90/S95 lens is totally bogus because this is an entirely different lens than was used on those models. Besides the fact of it being wider, it also drops the minimum macro distance from 2.0" to 1.2" and as shown in the graphic provided by dpreview:

http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/canons100/images/allroundview.jpg



The lens extension starts at 3mm less than the S90/S95's so there is no way of knowing exactly where the maximum extension is going to wind up.

 

[Nemrod]

Oh, Omnipotent One...

If you didn't have such an ego you would know you are guessing like everybody else. Your reference basis of the S90/S95 lens is totally bogus because this is an entirely different lens than was used on those models. Besides the fact of it being wider, it also drops the minimum macro distance from 2.0" to 1.2" and as shown in the graphic provided by dpreview:

http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/canons100/images/allroundview.jpg

View attachment 103642

The lens extension starts at 3mm less than the S90/S95's so there is no way of knowing exactly where the maximum extension is going to wind up.

I am not going to get into an insult match with you, thank you for your attempt to do so . You like to throw insults left and right, fine. I will stick with what I said, essentially that a 24mm lens minimum focal length combined with a 5X zoom ratio are NOT a good thing for use with a wet mount lens. In fact, Inon even has stated they intended their lenses for a 3X ratio. The S90 and S95 are already pushing the envelope which is why they must be zoomed slightly with some lenses and mounts must be kept to a very minimum mounting distance for the lens, even a single mm counts. Since the Canon lens moves rearward initially it is also retreating from the fixed wet mount lens, this is never good as again, Inon even states they design their lenses for a specific operating distance which of course they do not provide but which can be measured and derived as I have done on my DIY optical bench.

If this stems from the XZ1, I was right, the camera does poorly with the common wet mount lenses and probably does OK with the Inon H100 and as well with the expensive, heavy, large Oly lens. This is really not rocket science nor does it require any omnipotent mystical voodoo, and if it turns out I am wrong, no skin off me, I am not having stock in Canon or anyone else. It would be great and pleasing to me if I were wrong about the incompatibility of the S100 with the majority of current wet lens options.

The lens, BTW is not "entirely" different but I am sure you will go drag another link out that I have already looked at. What you do not take into account here is that the wet mount lens is the determining factor. The camera must conform to the wet mount accessory lens and with many of these lenses I have considerable experience. New lenses that may evolve to accommodate this trend to go to ever wider focal lengths and zoom ratios on pocket cameras, who knows. The 24mm can be dealt with, the long zoom lens is much more problematic.

N