Can We Learn From This?

[turnerjd]

Well, withought Dr Deco comming in ('cos he's better than me at deco theory) There are THREE risk factors here

1) Aegir had been drinking.. He didn't say how much, but from the ammount of water he said he drank to rehydrate, I don't think that it was just 1 or 2 pints.

2) screwy profiles - I know historially the deepest dive first is an artifact of the way the tables were designed, and tested - I also know that there was a workshop that investigated this area and came to the conclusion the deepest first wasn't necessary - but - since tables (and computer algorithms) weren't designed for this.....

3) two uncontrolled ascents

Whilst not wanting to say 'your fault' to aegir - I think that there is are a couple of valuable lessons to be learned here

1) moderate drinking - if you drink at all

2) Trust yourself - don't trust anyone else with YOUR profiles - if you are diving PADI - under there statement of safe diving practice - you can tell your instructor to PISS OFF if they try and get you to do stupid profiles - if necessary point out on the statement where it sais about following the PADI table procedures to him

3)Don't get yourself into a situation where you just KNOW that an accident is going to happen - underqualified divers in those conditions was a receipe for disaster

4) build a cuff-dump check into your pre-dive safety check

Accidents happen - and we must learn from them

Jon T

 

[gozumutti]

Aegir

Far it be from me to assume someone is "wrong", but just having done my OWD where my instructor beat the principle of deeper dives before shallower into my pea brain, the dive profiles you published had me confused.

Hope you are all better now and that you can get back into the water soon.

gozu-easily-confused-mutti

 

[Aegir]

Goz you are right

However most of the deep dives performed were multi-level dives. Which you will learn about in your AOW unless you know about this already.

Personally i would like to see some data on the risks (if any) of performing slightly deeper dives as your second dive of the day, for example. (MULTI-LEVEL dives only)

Of course, the deepest dive first is a well proven way to dive safely, mistakes were made as Jon and many others already pointed out.

The last uncontrolled ascent i had however was not my mistake, it was an altruistic act. Was i going let this young chap rocket to the surface like a missile?..no way and i would do the same thing over and over again if the situation called for it.

The instructor and dive club members in question do infact get drunk every night (weekends) before a mornings diving. This was the first time i had dived with this club and although they are friendly people they didnt take diving seriously enough in my opinion. Personally i couldnt care less wether i drink or not...i am actually a "pure" diver in that i will dive one day..go home to bed get up early and dive the next day. These guys see drinking as an integral part of the diving weekkend. But i definately see alcohol as a large contributing factor as to why i got bent that weekend. I have never drunk so much alcohol before going diving before, i will never even consider doing so again.

Further..does any one know HOW alcohol increases your risk of getting DCI?

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Aegir

The instructor and dive club members in question do infact get drunk every night (weekends) before a mornings diving. This was the first time i had dived with this club and although they are friendly people they didnt take diving seriously enough in my opinion. Personally i couldnt care less wether i drink or not...i am actually a "pure" diver in that i will dive one day..go home to bed get up early and dive the next day. These guys see drinking as an integral part of the diving weekkend. But i definately see alcohol as a large contributing factor as to why i got bent that weekend. I have never drunk so much alcohol before going diving before, i will never even consider doing so again.

Aegir..

Looks like you have learned the hard way that when you are not happy with something you have to shout out!

lesson learned, and when you are fully back to health, I hope, no damage done.

Just a shame you had to take a ride in the pot.

Jon T

 

[greg somers]

I'm Glad you're O.K. Aegir,
I have to agree with Gozz on my initial reaction of reading your dive profile with the middle last or middle dive being deeper and longer.
You had a long hard weekend by the looks of things with the number of dives over 3 consecutive days in Cold water and at depth.The added factor of alcohol which definately is a factor in the blood and from my understanding can affect the process of off-gassing would have been one more factor.
Maybe I'm old school and live by the tables but I see a reliance on computers to be a problem with your dive profile.
The problem as I see it is that dive computers are set at standard measurements and we are all individuals and a whole raft of issues can affect us.
1.Did your computer take account of the cold conditions?
2.Did they take into account the tiredness that you would be suffering from? Those weekends are always tough diving wise and socially.
3.Alcohol affects us differently at different times and states of health,particularly when we're run down.As a non insulin dependant diabetic I have to moniter all these things at all times.I have learned to recognise certain signs that indicate that I have not only gotten tired but my bodies reserves are at their limit.

You've been around for a while and I know that you know that there is no such thing as a standard diver and we need to remember that most of the time we are fine and are able to operate safely within the no-deco limits but there are times when we are not.
Maybe less dives (2 a Day) in cold water,more recovery time and more careful planning of the dive profiles may be in order next time.
I have done some multi-level dives using the computer,but I found that it can lead to confusion with others with different computers which use different tolerances. You already had a tough enough profile to do without adding any uncertainty to it.Basically I would have hesitated following that profile in those conditions myself even with tables.
I'm glad you're ok.
We have a major legal case here in N.Z. where a dive operation and Instructor are being prosecuted for diving with students after drinking and smoking Whacky-baccy the night before they took them on a drift dive through French Pass at the top of the South Island and they messed up the tide times.They took 7 students into a 6 knot current with giant eddies or whirlpools and 3 students lost their lives as they were dragged deep by the current and they were on their basic OW course..MADNESS !!!!!
They have been found guilty but that doesn't help those who have lost loved ones.
I don't mind you guys throwing these things out to the rest of us.It's got to be good,particularly when there are still idiots amongst our ranks as those in my country have proven themselves to be.
Later Guys.

 

[Aegir]

Well said, but my computer wouldnt have to allow for cold conditions because i am aclimatised to diving in near freezing temperatures. From what i have read about this you should only plan dives deeper than actual when it is cold only if you are not used to the cold conditions. The word "cold" in itself is relative. The conditions i was diving in on that weekend were infact comparably warm for me.

 

[DameDykker]

Hello Aegir

Did you or do you plan to change your Cobras personal level? I think this shows that maybe you are a person sensitive to DSC as the Cobra didn't go into decopression mode or warnings (?). Try the simulation with your profiles with P0, P1 and P2 levels. By the way have you downloaded your profiles and looked at the tissue loadings?

Glad you'r on your way to recovery.

DSAO

 

[Aegir]

No sorry DD i dont have the option to download the info to a PC. The reason i experienced DCI is the fact that i had 2 uncontrolled ascents during one weekend and alcohol was also involved. To assume that i am more susceptible to DCI than any other person isnt very good reasoning considering all the other variables involved(alcohol/late nights/etc)

 

[DameDykker]

No, maybe the reasonning is not 100% watertight considering all the details you have. But a raise in personel level will everything else being equal give you a larger margin.

It's a pity that you can't download your profiles. It is very illuminating - especially for deep dives and multilevel.

DSAO