Buoyancy Control: Dry suit or BC?

[scubadobadoo]

So, if you go the PADI line, it is something you un-learn with time.

Yep, I agree.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

One more vote for the BC for buoyancy and air in suit to offset squeeze. When I'm ready to start my ascent I always let air out of the bc first then I can easily manage dumping the drysuit since it's the only air pocket I have left.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[SadiesMom]

Becky and I also use almost exactly what you use. 300 weight fleece and polypro. We are cold once we hit the 50's so we have been adding ANOTHER fleece layer AND expedition weight undies when we drop into the 50 degree mark. That requires ANOTHER 5 pounds of weight or more to off set the extra fleece and to allow us to use a little more air but not much. I prefer to have the squeeze but Beck prefers to have more air and thus more loft and thus a little more warmth and I almost forgot, a little more weight. Make sense?

You will find that as you dive deeper in your dry suit you will need to add more air to both your suit (for the squeeze and loft) and to your BC (for the control). Much of the time you may find that at depts above 60 feet, you only need to add air to your Dry suit to get rid of the squeeze AND to help with your buoyancy. As you dive deeper, you will find that even more air is needed and thus it becomes easier (for me) to use my BC for buoyancy and the suit only needs air to give the fleece loft and to prevent turning me into a flap jack. Fleece squeezed to death will not keep you warm like already compressed thinsulate. Fleece tends to require more air and thus more weight than thinsulate materials. Make sense?

I agree that not moving will make you colder!

As for feeling cold in a dry suit and warm in a wet suit, I agree at times. I frequently feel colder in my dry suit than I did in my wet suit and after two years of this i have FINALLY realized that (for me) 300 weight fleece even with expedition weight undies isn't enough to keep me warm when diving the NE. Blame it on the undies maybe? I will probably try some 400 weight thinsulate next...And the money keeeps rolling out...

IMHO, dry suits are great but they don't always keep one feeling "warmer" IN the water. Keep you from getting chilled to the core longer, yes. Out of the water is where a dry suit really shines. If it's 40 degrees outside and you come out of the water in a wet suit, life sucks!

Long answers, sorry, but I hope they help. Some will also suggest dry gloves, a thicker hood like a 12 mil, or even argon but I think when you spend as much time in really cold water as you do, nothing will ever keep you toasty. I hate when people use that word when talking about how they feel in a dry suit in really cold water. "Toasty." What a lie! Does that mean I will go back to using my wet suit? HECK NO!

Thanks for the answers, honey. I've asked for those fleece jammies for Christmas - I'm seriously thinking they'd make a great extra layer for my DS - Here's hoping Santa comes through!

On the plus side, classes are done, so my next dives will be for my own fun. I won't be limited to such shallow sites anymore. I may try a couple extra pounds on the next dive to give myself the ability to inflate a little more to allow for more loft - that should help a bit on warmth. I don't want to overdo it, but I do think I'm diving too squeezed right now.

If I don't talk to you first, have a great Thanksgiving and give my love to Beck and "the kids." :smoochie:

 

[Scubar]

I just add air to my Dry Suit to take off the squezze and use the BC for buoyancy control.

 

[rickyd]

I was originally taught to use only the DS for buoyancy. It worked for me OK, but, as written often, that bubble certainly does move about a lot, especially when deeper than 60 feet. I'm diving a CF200 and RecWing.

Well, I changed to a 30# Oxycheq wing, made a few dives and loved the better stability and smaller profile, and gave it another try - to use both DS and BC. WOW - I now know how much more stable you can be, just adding enough air to beat the squeeze, and using the BC for what's it designed. I also learned some squeeze is OK; the less air you can add, and still be comfortable, the better.

So, after 150 dives of ignoring my BC, I think I'm finally getting it right!

 

[Dean810]

I hate when people use that word when talking about how they feel in a dry suit in really cold water. "Toasty." What a lie! Does that mean I will go back to using my wet suit? HECK NO! [/QUOTE]

All your comments are very wise and sage! The word "toasty" is reserved for those that want to brag. I have never been too warm in my wetsuit in the Carribean in 85° water or "toasty" in Lake Michigan in my drysuit in 60° water. I have heard people use the word "toasty" 2 weeks after a dive that complained how cold the water was right after the dive. It's a show.

Dry suit manufacturers will tell you that the suit doesn't keep you warm, it's what you wear under it. So if you are cold, look at the undies!

And you are so right about the benifits of dry when you are on land! I am going diving in Kankakee Illinois the Saturday after Thanksgiving, when the air temp is expected to be in the low 30's. I would'nt even THINK of it in a wetsuit!

 

[scubadobadoo]

Thanks for the answers, honey. I've asked for those fleece jammies for Christmas - I'm seriously thinking they'd make a great extra layer for my DS - Here's hoping Santa comes through!

On the plus side, classes are done, so my next dives will be for my own fun. I won't be limited to such shallow sites anymore. I may try a couple extra pounds on the next dive to give myself the ability to inflate a little more to allow for more loft - that should help a bit on warmth. I don't want to overdo it, but I do think I'm diving too squeezed right now.

If I don't talk to you first, have a great Thanksgiving and give my love to Beck and "the kids." :smoochie:

Always my pleasure. This may be the only scuba topic left that I could even give you advice on. Pretty soon I'll be taking a specialty course from you! You have accomplished much in the little time we have all been diving. I'm very proud if you. I hope that didn't seem silly. I meant it.:05:

Please also give your gals my best!

 

[redseaalien]

Your PADI class taught you that the book was wrong? Interesting.

I wonder if this is specified in the instructor standards.

PADI video seems to teach that you use the BCD for buoyancy, but I haven't seen the book to compare. Having been underweighted and overweighted trying to use the suit for buoyancy after emptying/filling my BCD as much as possible, it doesn't seem to be the most efficient way of doing things, even if you don't care what your trim is so long as you're not nailed to the bottom or stuck on the surface. At least with neoprene suits, there's only so much space in them, especially if you're using someone else's too tight suit! Even jacket BCD squeeze is more comfortable than suit squeeze or Michelin man mobility, so with my very limited experience, my guess is that PADI sacked the guy who wrote that in the book and told people to teach from the video, instead.

 

[redseaalien]

I hate when people use that word when talking about how they feel in a dry suit in really cold water. "Toasty." What a lie! Does that mean I will go back to using my wet suit? HECK NO!

All your comments are very wise and sage! The word "toasty" is reserved for those that want to brag. I have never been too warm in my wetsuit in the Carribean in 85° water or "toasty" in Lake Michigan in my drysuit in 60° water. I have heard people use the word "toasty" 2 weeks after a dive that complained how cold the water was right after the dive. It's a show. [/QUOTE]

Water in the low 50s and a 7/7/3 jacket/john/shorty with good seals "semidry" combo can come surprisingly close to toasty. Take ten degrees off that and I'm freezing in a neoprene drysuit wearing clothes under it that I'd wear snowboarding (under a jacket that's little more than a shell), minus the silk turtleneck, when the air temperature is below zero with the wind chill. Seems like some sort of sick joke, that. I thought you were supposed to be WARMER in a drysuit!

 

[Dean810]

All your comments are very wise and sage! The word "toasty" is reserved for those that want to brag. I have never been too warm in my wetsuit in the Carribean in 85° water or "toasty" in Lake Michigan in my drysuit in 60° water. I have heard people use the word "toasty" 2 weeks after a dive that complained how cold the water was right after the dive. It's a show.

Water in the low 50s and a 7/7/3 jacket/john/shorty with good seals "semidry" combo can come surprisingly close to toasty. Take ten degrees off that and I'm freezing in a neoprene drysuit wearing clothes under it that I'd wear snowboarding (under a jacket that's little more than a shell), minus the silk turtleneck, when the air temperature is below zero with the wind chill. Seems like some sort of sick joke, that. I thought you were supposed to be WARMER in a drysuit![/QUOTE]

You are warmer in a drysuit. Did you wear a wetsuit under those conditions?