Brand new to diving- just doing my online PADI stuff. Losing weight- can I only rent equipment?

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

Yes, most backplates can be used with doubles by merely swapping the wing and removing the tank bands. Since plates can be had for cheap, some will have a dedicated doubles plate, just to avoid removing the tank bands. Others use a single tank adapter which holds the bands/tank, but attaches to the plate like doubles (with bolts). Just depends how often you need to switch.

A 30 lb singles wing will work for just about any single-tank diving: warm or cold water, wetsuit or drysuit. Some will get a 20 lb wing for warm water travel simply because it takes less room in the luggage.

Who makes a great 30lb singles wing that would be considered solid and reliable but still a sensible choice, and do you get the wing and backplate from the same manufacturer? What about HOG? Or Hollis? I see Halcyon but some people claim it's overpriced- is that fair or is it just amazing quality? I don't need the Rolex of dive gear. I drive a Honda- is there a Honda of dive gear?

 

[inquis]

The attributes of a BP/W that appeal to technical divers appeal to recreational divers: consistent fit, D-rings are placed where your particular body wants them, it doesn't ride up around your ears on the surface, crap doesn't dangle and catch on the reef, no issues with buying the wrong size or weight loss/gain mandating a new BCD, modular/repairable for less, no accidental release of weights, inexpensive, and the list goes on.

(FWIW, there are single-tank specific backplates, but they are much less common.)

 

[inquis]

is there a Honda of dive gear?

The most often recommended setup here (for good reasons):

DGX Custom - DGX Gears Singles Harness / Backplate / Wing Package

A basic DGX backplate/wing/harness package for single tank diving at a value price.

www.divegearexpress.com

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

The most often recommended setup here (for good reasons):

DGX Custom - DGX Gears Singles Harness / Backplate / Wing Package

A basic DGX backplate/wing/harness package for single tank diving at a value price.

www.divegearexpress.com

Very interesting!!

 

[halocline]

Very interesting!!

That’s a good set up. There are a couple of real advantages to diving with a BP/W, and this applies to all levels of diving. One, the rigid plate basically couples the tank to your back, spreading out the point of contact. Think of a tank rolling around on the floor, then imagine a flat(ish) plate strapped to it, and now the tank is much, much more stable on the floor. Your back is kind of like the floor. Two, you don’t want clutter and excess fabric, plastic, padding, whatever on your chest and torso. Trust me on this one; life is very different in the water, horizontal, and you will be more comfortable with less stuff on your body. The simple webbing harness achieves this. Three, you don’t want excess buoyancy, which you then need to counter by adding weight. Virtually all jacket BCs have inherent positive buoyancy and this is counter productive to ease of diving, descending, adjusting to changing depths, etc.

Big sincere congratulations on losing a large amount of weight! Another nice thing about the BP/W set up is that as you shrink, you can simply re-adjust the webbing harness and cut off any excess.

I agree with many of the comments on this thread about not buying gear now, and waiting until you finish your class. When it does come time for you to buy a BC, you should absolutely try a BP/W before buying anything. There are some recreational instructors that mistakenly say BP/W is only for technical diving, but keep in mind many OW instructors are also tied to the gear sales industry that is pushing jacket BCs, and many simply lack the experience in other types of BCs.

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

That’s a good set up. There are a couple of real advantages to diving with a BP/W, and this applies to all levels of diving. One, the rigid plate basically couples the tank to your back, spreading out the point of contact. Think of a tank rolling around on the floor, then imagine a flat(ish) plate strapped to it, and now the tank is much, much more stable on the floor. Your back is kind of like the floor. Two, you don’t want clutter and excess fabric, plastic, padding, whatever on your chest and torso. Trust me on this one; life is very different in the water, horizontal, and you will be more comfortable with less stuff on your body. The simple webbing harness achieves this. Three, you don’t want excess buoyancy, which you then need to counter by adding weight. Virtually all jacket BCs have inherent positive buoyancy and this is counter productive to ease of diving, descending, adjusting to changing depths, etc.

Big sincere congratulations on losing a large amount of weight! Another nice thing about the BP/W set up is that as you shrink, you can simply re-adjust the webbing harness and cut off any excess.

I agree with many of the comments on this thread about not buying gear now, and waiting until you finish your class. When it does come time for you to buy a BC, you should absolutely try a BP/W before buying anything. There are some recreational instructors that mistakenly say BP/W is only for technical diving, but keep in mind many OW instructors are also tied to the gear sales industry that is pushing jacket BCs, and many simply lack the experience in other types of BCs.

I appreciate this thorough reply!!!! See for a non-diver peering in from the outside, the jacket style BCD looks "comforting". Oh- look, I am protected and I have all of these pockets and this padding and it looks so comfy!! And the BP/W doesn't look comfy at all. LOL. I'm so grateful to get this guidance or I could have very easily gone down the wrong path.

I'm easing into the "dive industry" locally by visiting shops and it's a bit weird. They seem to be married to the idea of just selling really expensive stuff and they don't really listen. Heck the shop that I went into yesterday basically didn't want anything to do with me after they found out that I already had my open water scheduled in the Caribbean. I own a business and all of this seems so counterintuitive, and frankly off-putting. Shouldn't this be the standard relationship-based selling? The other shop went on and on ad nauseam about their own open water course, even after hearing that I had mine scheduled during my vacation. Once I get my open water I am going to want the buoyancy class and lord only knows what other training- probably up to advanced open water and beyond. I have just always been like that with any hobby- squeeze every bit of learning you can get out of it to have the best experience.

The place that I visited yesterday was really shabby and their retail is pretty much dead based on what I saw. They had a video posted on facebook that was very hard-sell and focused on gear. As a brand new diver, I'd much rather hear about how your scuba instructors are going to work with me and how they are trained to guide me through my particular challenges and weaknesses to develop me into a safe, competent, and proficient diver who can really enjoy my time in the water and make the most of it. Now of course I am a gear fanatic, and looking at and fondling all of the gear in the one really well-equipped shop that I've seen was amazing. But if the feel that I get from your video is that you only care about selling me your particular brand of gear, you've already lost me.

Both places have lots of really good reviews on google so I feel like I am missing something. Can someone explain the industry to me? Is it just that there is no margin in training so they have to make every bit that they can on gear?

If I wear Apeks RK3 fins in Mexico will people be like "what is this fool doing?!?!" When I hear that these kinds of fins are more geared to tech diving what does that actually mean?!?!?!? Can't I wear the Apeks RK3 in the cenotes and for my open water and for Utila if I can talk my sister into that trip later in the year??

I couldn't find my damn bag of snorkel gear to save my life even after tearing apart my whole basement. I tell my wife last night "if you think that there is dive gear in the basement you are smoking crack." Of course she proceeds to take me right to it. It turns out that I have (well, we both do) Seac F100 Pro fins. They are the foot pocket kind and they fit our feet well barefoot. Is there a very thin, very high quality sock that will work well with this kind of fin that already fits??? I feel like we need socks for some reason- but am I wrong?

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I'm easing into the "dive industry" locally by visiting shops and it's a bit weird. They seem to be married to the idea of just selling really expensive stuff and they don't really listen. Heck the shop that I went into yesterday basically didn't want anything to do with me after they found out that I already had my open water scheduled in the Caribbean. I own a business and all of this seems so counterintuitive, and frankly off-putting. Shouldn't this be the standard relationship-based selling?

Counter inituitive? Not really when you look at the LDS model. Very few of their customers go on to be "hard-core" divers. I think, and I may be worng, that a lot of the LDS industry is a "one-and-done" profit model. Folks come in and do an OW class with them. Their instructor is seen as a scuba-diving GOD. And all of his or her gear must be the BEST (ever wonder why you don't see a shop's instructors using anything but the top-shelf equipment from a brand that the shop just happens to be selling?)

So, that sets up a vast market of new OW divers that are really gung-ho to embrace the sport and the LDS steers them to the highest priced, biggest margin equipment? Particularly since their instructor was using that Scubapro MK25 Titanium/ A700 and the HydrosPro BC and the Seawing Nova Gorilla flippers? Oh, and the Scubapro G2 AI computer w/ transmitter? And two new Thrunderbird AL-80s with the black PVD XS Fornicator valves! I mean IT'S YOUR LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM !!! Surely, you don't want to skimp on THAT !?!

And those UW divers spend thousands of bux on that LDS' gear, while the LDS knows that for most divers, those are the only bux they will ever see from that particular diver? Becasue the diver is gonna make one or two dive trips and interest in this very expensive hobby will wane, and 10 years down the road, all of that stuff will be pulled out and thrown on FB Marketplace advertised as "Like new SCUBA set-up! Only used twice! Only selling as a complete package. Tio buy it all today would cost $3,500. Take advantage of my loss and get it all for $2900 !!!"

 

[inquis]

I've used these scuba specific socks, but after losing one, I just use normal, thinish athletic socks. The point is to reduce rubbing/chafing. I actually use them with my booties/open heel fins (after getting open blisters after a week in Cozumel with 4x dives per day).

Full foot fins are fine for boat diving (shore diving not so much), but no one should look at you oddly if you have the RK3s. This type is more effective for frog kicking, which is more efficient if you're not trying to dart from place to place. (Dives will last longer!)

 

[pdwh]

Counter inituitive? Not really when you look at the LDS model. Very few of their customers go on to be "hard-core" divers. I think, and I may be worng, that a lot of the LDS industry is a "one-and-done" profit model. Folks come in and do an OW class with them. Their instructor is seen as a scuba-diving GOD. And all of his or her gear must be the BEST (ever wonder why you don't see a shop's instructors using anything but the top-shelf equipment from a brand that the shop just happens to be selling?)

So, that sets up a vast market of new OW divers that are really gung-ho to embrace the sport and the LDS steers them to the highest priced, biggest margin equipment? Particularly since their instructor was using that Scubapro MK25 Titanium/ A700 and the HydrosPro BC and the Seawing Nova Gorilla flippers? Oh, and the Scubapro G2 AI computer w/ transmitter? And two new Thrunderbird AL-80s with the black PVD XS Fornicator valves! I mean IT'S YOUR LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM !!! Surely, you don't want to skimp on THAT !?!

And those UW divers spend thousands of bux on that LDS' gear, while the LDS knows that for most divers, those are the only bux they will ever see from that particular diver? Becasue the diver is gonna make one or two dive trips and interest in this very expensive hobby will wane, and 10 years down the road, all of that stuff will be pulled out and thrown on FB Marketplace advertised as "Like new SCUBA set-up! Only used twice! Only selling as a complete package. Tio buy it all today would cost $3,500. Take advantage of my loss and get it all for $2900 !!!"

This is very true, the one and done model. It's because that's been their experience, but I also think it's a mistake. Locally (for me), we have all these beautiful lakes. Low vis, yes, at least compared to the ocean, but they are right here. I've been thinking about how to get people into them more and to get the dive shops to realize the benefit of focusing on encouraging training for the specialties that will help divers appreciate the lakes more (and better prepared to help with cleanup dives) and planning more fun events locally.

I'm one of those that bought a ton of used stuff (after educating myself to avoid buying useless or unsafe stuff). I buy new when I can, try to avoid online orders, and of course, take everything to my local shops for service. Those divers whose interest wanes? It's because they were sold only on the expensive remote dive trips, not "join me at the lake twice a month to see the fish". Since they're not doing it all the time, they don't see the need for more classes, optimizing their gear, their skills never truly develop.

I hope to make an ocean trip but my current cost to dive is the gas for a 1 hour round trip to the closest good dive spot, and less than $50 to fill my tanks (that's if all four of them are empty and 2 are nitrox).

At least one of our local shops is starting to get the idea, I think. They've just rolled out an entire year of monthly events to try and build the community and I expect they'll see benefit from it. One of them is a trip, but not an expensive overseas one - it's a road trip to a quarry a few state away that's supposed to be great to dive in. Cost - FAR less than a trip to Cozumel or Bonaire or any other awesome dive spot. I expect the demand will be huge from some of the local divers that just cannot afford the bigger trips.

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

This is very true, the one and done model. It's because that's been their experience, but I also think it's a mistake. Locally (for me), we have all these beautiful lakes. Low vis, yes, at least compared to the ocean, but they are right here. I've been thinking about how to get people into them more and to get the dive shops to realize the benefit of focusing on encouraging training for the specialties that will help divers appreciate the lakes more (and better prepared to help with cleanup dives) and planning more fun events locally.

I'm one of those that bought a ton of used stuff (after educating myself to avoid buying useless or unsafe stuff). I buy new when I can, try to avoid online orders, and of course, take everything to my local shops for service. Those divers whose interest wanes? It's because they were sold only on the expensive remote dive trips, not "join me at the lake twice a month to see the fish". Since they're not doing it all the time, they don't see the need for more classes, optimizing their gear, their skills never truly develop.

I hope to make an ocean trip but my current cost to dive is the gas for a 1 hour round trip to the closest good dive spot, and less than $50 to fill my tanks (that's if all four of them are empty and 2 are nitrox).

At least one of our local shops is starting to get the idea, I think. They've just rolled out an entire year of monthly events to try and build the community and I expect they'll see benefit from it. One of them is a trip, but not an expensive overseas one - it's a road trip to a quarry a few state away that's supposed to be great to dive in. Cost - FAR less than a trip to Cozumel or Bonaire or any other awesome dive spot. I expect the demand will be huge from some of the local divers that just cannot afford the bigger trips.

See this is exactly my thinking- the local quarries is where my scuba skills and enjoyment will live or die. Also, at some point I would LOVE to do a driving and diving trip to the Bonn Terre abandoned lead mine in MIssouri. The footage I've seen on youtube is absurdly cool. They seem to be accomplished technical divers so I don't know if there is good beginner diving there, but I can eventually get up to speed with quarries and trips to Mexico and maybe Utila.

Funny, now I see the lead mine is closed. That's a bummer!! If anyone has any info on the ongoing dispute please share!

Bonne Terre Mine

bonneterremine.com

One of my local dive shops- the one with a beautiful showroom and the one that seems a whole lot more "on the ball" does their open water at a quarry.

OMG I just saw that you are from Missouri pdwh!!!!! Drive down there right now and demand answers!!! LOL!!!!!! No but dude let's dive!!!! OK OK I will calm down. Need to get my open water. That's in May.