BP/W with octo on inflator

[steveann]

It sounds like we agree that it is solution to a problem that can be solved in much better ways. If one chooses to still dive with suboptimal gear, that is their choice, but knowing that it isn't the best solution is important. Changing gear to accommodate for skills deficiencies is a dangerous path to tread.

I had a long post, but i realized I was just rambling and sounding a bit beligerent, which is not my desire. In short, what I would reply to you is this:

Suboptimal gear configurations for one person may not be for another. Confidence in their gear and the subsequent ability to concentrate on the other skills necessary to diving is more important than the use of "optimal" gear. In fact, optimal gear is whatever gives you that confidence, be it a octo-flator or a bungeed secondary or Spare Air or whatever. If you can make the diver confident intheir gear config, then they can concentrate on those other skills that are necessary, and in reality more important than streamlining (think buoyancy, trim, situational awareness.)

In a way I see it as the same as adding new equipment to your config. You start out with the basics, then you add a light, then maybe a camera, then something else, and so on. You don't go all out at once. So, once the diver has exceeded the capabilities of their octo-flator, they get a regular octo. Once they've exceeded the capabilities of their octo, they get a pony. Then maybe doubles.

In all reality, there are more important lessons to be learned in diving than streamlining. I'd rather let someone concentrate on those.

 

[Soggy]

Suboptimal gear configurations for one person may not be for another. Confidence in their gear and the subsequent ability to concentrate on the other skills necessary to diving is more important than the use of "optimal" gear. In fact, optimal gear is whatever gives you that confidence, be it a octo-flator or a bungeed secondary or Spare Air or whatever. If you can make the diver confident intheir gear config, then they can concentrate on those other skills that are necessary, and in reality more important than streamlining (think buoyancy, trim, situational awareness.)

What is most important is to have the gear and skills that have the best chances of getting you out of a bad situation alive. A diver can believe in a spare air all they want, but the simple fact is that it doesn't have enough gas to get you out alive and as such is worthless. I can believe I can fly, but the sad fact is, I can't. Misplaced confidence is a very dangerous thing. An AIR2, while it might work most of the time in a recreational open water situation, has dangerous failure modes. There are solutions that do not share these failures, thus they are better solutions.

In a way I see it as the same as adding new equipment to your config. You start out with the basics, then you add a light, then maybe a camera, then something else, and so on. You don't go all out at once. So, once the diver has exceeded the capabilities of their octo-flator, they get a regular octo. Once they've exceeded the capabilities of their octo, they get a pony. Then maybe doubles.

You are on the right track, but a bit misguided, IMO. I agree about adding things incrementally, but there is never a reason to change the foundation if you set it up correctly from the beginning. Then, you don't have to unlearn anything when you are adding the new skills/equipment, you just learn the new skill incrementally. Comparing a bungeed backup situation to an AIR2 --- you will never have to change the bungeed backup for as far as you go in diving. It works everywhere in any diving situation, but should you want to move into more complex diving, the AIR 2 (and the skills associated with it) will have go.

Think of it this way...Joe Recreational Diver, wearing a poodle jacket with AIR 2 and 36" hose decides decides he wants to take an Intro to Cave class, which (much to my dismay) can be done in a single tank. An AIR 2 and short hose are completely unnacceptable gear in a cave (because they have more failure potential) and the preferred configuration is a bungeed backup with long hose and a backplate/wing. Now, in addition to learning the cave skills, you have to unlearn the habitual response of going to your inflator for a backup reg and replace that with going to a different reg and donating gas differently. If, from the start, one was using a bungeed backup system (which works in every situation I can imagine) there would be no need for this unlearning and relearning process...it's just adding a couple new things, which is a lot easier.

The optimal gear is the gear that works in any situation and has the fewest potential for problems. The AIR2 is not that piece of gear.

 

[DiveTub]

Come on Soggy
I thought we agreed to give it a rest on this one....

A diver can believe in a spare air all they want, but the simple fact is that it doesn't have enough gas to get you out alive and as such is worthless.

Statements like the above are just plain wrong and unfounded. The Air2 delivers more than enough air for the Diver in a OOA situation, having done hundreds of ascents on them I have NEVER been short of air.

Now you have told us they are dangerous and will kill people in a number of your posts, I think you have gotton your point across as to your views on the Air2's. If they are as dangerous as you make them out to be then no one would be diving them and they would be pulled from the market. So now you can relax and go for a dive.

As for changing to new gear as you progress through your diving, (your example being cave diving), try strapping on an ECCR and see how you go, no bungee Necklace here.... As with any new type of diving it is a gradual slow process, learning new skills that you where never taught in your OW course. That for me is one of the great things about this sport, new gear, new toys and always learning.

Cheers
Chris

 

[Twomixdiver]

"...having done hundreds of ascents on them..."(AIR2)

You are a very unique person. Either you should service your primary 2nd stage more often, or you should choose your buddies more carefully.

 

[Hoosier]

You are a very unique person. Either you should service your primary 2nd stage more often, or you should choose your buddies more carefully.

To me. he knows his gear very well and also knows what he is doing.

 

[JeffG]

The Air2 delivers more than enough air <snip>

This does not equal this

A diver can believe in a spare air all they want,

You are both talking about different things

 

[DiveTub]

You are a very unique person. Either you should service your primary 2nd stage more often, or you should choose your buddies more carefully.

Twomixdiver
Like I said in an earlier post, ALL my students learn how to use both a Standard Occy and an Air2 during their OOA drills on the OW course.

Cheers
Chris

 

[steveann]

This does not equal this




You are both talking about different things

I'd have to agree with Jeff. Spare Air does not equal Air2. In no way whatsoever. Spare Air in my mind is only useful in blowing bubbles from the bottom (it does work nicely for this) and for sneaking into the enemy encampment undetected. But, some people like them, and I guess if you're diving in 30 feet of water (where you really don't need any backup air to make it to the surface) it's a useful option to have those two breaths that a Spare Air will give you.