and we hope it stays that way and you don't have what would be an ironic situation occur.
Bonaire Crime - Our experience - Looking for input to share
- Thread starter salth2owannabe
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salth2owannabe
Contributor
My original reasons for starting this post were these - To share a personal experience of a dive vacation affected by crime, but more importantly to share a personal experience of the indifference shown by the police, to the point of tolerance, regarding crime on tourists (Obviously can't speak about actions regarding crime on a local). It was also to point out that these types of crimes are becoming much more common and that we often don't hear anything about them here as well as the other Bonaire forums that post, or used to post, crime reports. With the end result of hopefully sharing some information from our collective perspective that might be beneficial to the cause instead of just sitting here complaining about it.
It 's not about whether petty crime occurs at dive sites - We all know it does.
It's not about whether or not you feel safe traveling to Bonaire, if you didn't you probably wouldn't go. 25 years in law enforcement and I am an instructor in all kinds of empty hand, intermediate weapons, blah, blah, I fell pretty safe in most areas I travel. The criminals that hit our house didn't ask me and they didn't care.
It's not about how crime savvy you are. The neighbors house that was hit was being occupied by a Dutch police officer on a short term special assignment from the Netherlands. The two of us are probably fairly crime savvy. The criminals didn't care about that either. The same can be said about securing the house at night or when you leave. I can speak for two of the three homes hit that night. All of the doors and windows were locked, to the extent that they were capable of being locked. Exterior security lights were on and the area they came through the window was lit up like daylight. The Dutch police officer had the same as well as a big a$$ German shepherd in the home. Nope, criminals didn't care.
Are we hearing about these crimes and are they getting more common - I've looked on every area I know of on the web and can't find any report of the three home invasion burglaries that night? It occurred on the night of February 25 if anyone can find something please share. Every local I spoke to told me about the dramatic increase in frequency of these types of crimes. Increased to the point of feeling the need for a local to start an avenue on the web to discuss crime activities with other neighbors. As well as feeling the need to get organized to address the complacency and frequency of it.
-The three home invasion burglaries the night of ours. The first home they took the rental truck and the flat screen TV.
-One person we met stayed the last three years at a popular apartment type complex in the area of Pasa Bon Pizza. They were on the third floor and two of the three years criminals accessed their apartment by climbing the rain gutters and lower balconies to access their place while they were there. One year they woke up and chased the burglars off.
-The local who owns a VRBO home and lives on site has had their home broken into twice in the last 12 months. The first time they stole the renters items while they were gone for dinner. The second time they came back for the flat screen TV. Both occasions the home was locked, etc. etc.
-We spoke to another individual who was a local associated with BONHATA, they experienced a home invasion type burglary, they have since gotten a dog.
-We spoke to another who told us about a rental near the airport. The VRBO owner lived on site and in two recent occasions while the renters left for dinner the home was broken into.
I really like Bonaire, and I plan to return. My hope is that they can realize the nature of these crimes and realize they need to be taken seriously and addressed.
It 's not about whether petty crime occurs at dive sites - We all know it does.
It's not about whether or not you feel safe traveling to Bonaire, if you didn't you probably wouldn't go. 25 years in law enforcement and I am an instructor in all kinds of empty hand, intermediate weapons, blah, blah, I fell pretty safe in most areas I travel. The criminals that hit our house didn't ask me and they didn't care.
It's not about how crime savvy you are. The neighbors house that was hit was being occupied by a Dutch police officer on a short term special assignment from the Netherlands. The two of us are probably fairly crime savvy. The criminals didn't care about that either. The same can be said about securing the house at night or when you leave. I can speak for two of the three homes hit that night. All of the doors and windows were locked, to the extent that they were capable of being locked. Exterior security lights were on and the area they came through the window was lit up like daylight. The Dutch police officer had the same as well as a big a$$ German shepherd in the home. Nope, criminals didn't care.
Are we hearing about these crimes and are they getting more common - I've looked on every area I know of on the web and can't find any report of the three home invasion burglaries that night? It occurred on the night of February 25 if anyone can find something please share. Every local I spoke to told me about the dramatic increase in frequency of these types of crimes. Increased to the point of feeling the need for a local to start an avenue on the web to discuss crime activities with other neighbors. As well as feeling the need to get organized to address the complacency and frequency of it.
-The three home invasion burglaries the night of ours. The first home they took the rental truck and the flat screen TV.
-One person we met stayed the last three years at a popular apartment type complex in the area of Pasa Bon Pizza. They were on the third floor and two of the three years criminals accessed their apartment by climbing the rain gutters and lower balconies to access their place while they were there. One year they woke up and chased the burglars off.
-The local who owns a VRBO home and lives on site has had their home broken into twice in the last 12 months. The first time they stole the renters items while they were gone for dinner. The second time they came back for the flat screen TV. Both occasions the home was locked, etc. etc.
-We spoke to another individual who was a local associated with BONHATA, they experienced a home invasion type burglary, they have since gotten a dog.
-We spoke to another who told us about a rental near the airport. The VRBO owner lived on site and in two recent occasions while the renters left for dinner the home was broken into.
I really like Bonaire, and I plan to return. My hope is that they can realize the nature of these crimes and realize they need to be taken seriously and addressed.
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To continue with salth2owannabe"s "It's not.." theme.
It's not that I don't like Bonaire, it is because I love Bonaire that I am so offended by this long-standing and ongoing criminal behavior. This lovely place deserves better.
It's not that I don't recognize that crime happens everywhere and you have to be vigilant, because I absolutely do.
It's not that I don't think that it is wise to avoid putting yourself at risk, because I try hard to avoid situations that might put me in danger.
It's not that I think Bonaire is a physically dangerous place. In terms of violent crime I believe it is much safer than many of the places I have visited.
The thing that gets to me is the casual attitude toward theft. It's like "you're a tourist so you should resign yourself to eventually becoming a victim - just deal with it - and quit whining!"
And I very much resent the attitude "that it is all the victim's fault because he/she didn't take special precautions to avoid being robbed."
It's like telling a woman that it is all her own fault that she was raped because she dressed a bit too provocatively. Sure it is smart to avoid risky behavior but where is the recognition of the perpetrator's guilt? Where is the accountability for unlawful behavior? Where are the deterrents to prevent more crimes from happening?
Bonaire is such a wonderful place to visit but it continues to have this bad reputation for crime simply because it deserves it. And it's really a shame.
It's not that I don't like Bonaire, it is because I love Bonaire that I am so offended by this long-standing and ongoing criminal behavior. This lovely place deserves better.
It's not that I don't recognize that crime happens everywhere and you have to be vigilant, because I absolutely do.
It's not that I don't think that it is wise to avoid putting yourself at risk, because I try hard to avoid situations that might put me in danger.
It's not that I think Bonaire is a physically dangerous place. In terms of violent crime I believe it is much safer than many of the places I have visited.
The thing that gets to me is the casual attitude toward theft. It's like "you're a tourist so you should resign yourself to eventually becoming a victim - just deal with it - and quit whining!"
And I very much resent the attitude "that it is all the victim's fault because he/she didn't take special precautions to avoid being robbed."
It's like telling a woman that it is all her own fault that she was raped because she dressed a bit too provocatively. Sure it is smart to avoid risky behavior but where is the recognition of the perpetrator's guilt? Where is the accountability for unlawful behavior? Where are the deterrents to prevent more crimes from happening?
Bonaire is such a wonderful place to visit but it continues to have this bad reputation for crime simply because it deserves it. And it's really a shame.
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morecowbells
Contributor
Hit the nail on the head! When I was doing a shore dive in Bonaire somebody had rummaged through our car and stole my cheap sunglasses(found them crushed about 20 feet from the car). Another time somebody took a bath towel. Nothing of value, but seriously annoying! There was no way in hell that I was going to take the time to make a police report knowing ratio of time consumption vs. follow up.
I am sure some of the locals resent the idea of Americans coming to their island, then proceed to tell them how to run things and make it a better place, really I get it! I live outside of St. Louis, 30 minutes from downtown and 30 minutes from Ferguson. Unless you have zero access to news sources, it is obvious that we are frequently in the news due to crime, riots and blight. We have a major problem with both petty and violent crime. So what has happened with in 1.5 years? Property values in downtown and Ferguson bottoming out. Thousands are now stuck in sub prime mortgages or simply unable to sell their house. As one friend from Ferguson said " It is like you went out of town, neighbors had a massive party and you are stuck with cleaning up all the puke and repairing all the damage; and expected to pay the bill". That analogy can easily be applied to Bonaire homeowners and tourists. In the end it is the hard working people getting stuck with the bill.
Tourists who drop thousands of dollars on their vacation may have unrealistic Utopian expectations of their destination. It is a good chunk of change and valuable, cherished vacation time. You want it to be unencumbered by these incidents. Sadly crime happens. However, it should never have been allowed to escalate to this point. Unless the people of Bonaire insist on improving things, it may also suffer from 'The Ferguson Effect.'
drrich2
Contributor
"Sure it is smart to avoid risky behavior but where is the recognition of the perpetrator's guilt? Where is the accountability for unlawful behavior? Where are the deterrents to prevent more crimes from happening?"
Okay, talking from the angle of the petty theft from rental trucks, not gas siphoning, battery theft or home invasions, I'd use the example of...leaving money out in plain view in an unlocked car, in the U.S., parked in a poor neighborhood, and someone steals it. Or even locked, but it was an obvious wad of cash, and someone broke your window and took it.
In both cases someone exercised poor judgment for the region and suffered a theft of property. I think your questions would be answered like this:
1.) The perpetrator is morally guilty. Even if I tape $100 bills to a tree in my front yard, if someone walks into my yard & steals them, he's guilty of theft.
2.) Accountability for unlawful behavior - evidently nearly non-existent. The Dutch-based legal system as described on the thread sounds like a defense of criminals from victims who'd stand up for themselves & their property, rather than a defense of the victims.
3.) The deterrents are to avoid leaving valued personal items in rental trucks, and leave the trucks unlocked & windows down. Other people won't be inspired to help you if you're not perceived as taking reasonable precautions to help yourself. Even if police tried sting operations to bust a few petty thieves at dive sites, how long would it be before the tourists got it in their heads that they could now bring valuables in their trucks, leading to more temptation/profit for thieves?
That's historically been the way of Bonaire.
Home invasions/burglary, or (from other threads) battery theft or gas siphoning that can leave you stranded, these are a different kettle of fish.
Richard.
Okay, talking from the angle of the petty theft from rental trucks, not gas siphoning, battery theft or home invasions, I'd use the example of...leaving money out in plain view in an unlocked car, in the U.S., parked in a poor neighborhood, and someone steals it. Or even locked, but it was an obvious wad of cash, and someone broke your window and took it.
In both cases someone exercised poor judgment for the region and suffered a theft of property. I think your questions would be answered like this:
1.) The perpetrator is morally guilty. Even if I tape $100 bills to a tree in my front yard, if someone walks into my yard & steals them, he's guilty of theft.
2.) Accountability for unlawful behavior - evidently nearly non-existent. The Dutch-based legal system as described on the thread sounds like a defense of criminals from victims who'd stand up for themselves & their property, rather than a defense of the victims.
3.) The deterrents are to avoid leaving valued personal items in rental trucks, and leave the trucks unlocked & windows down. Other people won't be inspired to help you if you're not perceived as taking reasonable precautions to help yourself. Even if police tried sting operations to bust a few petty thieves at dive sites, how long would it be before the tourists got it in their heads that they could now bring valuables in their trucks, leading to more temptation/profit for thieves?
That's historically been the way of Bonaire.
Home invasions/burglary, or (from other threads) battery theft or gas siphoning that can leave you stranded, these are a different kettle of fish.
Richard.
oldschoolto
Contributor
I think we need to catch a few of these guys and cut their hands off... Show that we mean business... 
People don't like crime, HELL... I don't like crime... I'd love it to take anything and everything I want to a dive site and know it'll be there when I come back... That's not the case anywhere in the world... Just a simple fact...
Jim...
People don't like crime, HELL... I don't like crime... I'd love it to take anything and everything I want to a dive site and know it'll be there when I come back... That's not the case anywhere in the world... Just a simple fact...
Jim...
drrich2
Contributor
Actually the hand thing alludes to an issue; what are we willing to do to stop crime?
Turn prisons into slave labor camps and aim to make a profit on them? I favor that.
Public flogging of thieves caught in police sting operations at dive sites with staged 'abandoned' rental trucks? Doubt the Dutch have the stomach for such tactics. I recall some years back an American tourist in Singapore participating in some vandalism who was to get caned, and the controversy back here in the U.S. over it.
A push for 'stand your ground' type legislation? Someone enters you're residence unlawfully, you gain the right to gun them down? Or club'em with a baseball bat? Might escalate the danger of burglaries for all concerned. Might get more victims hurt, although morally I believe in it; practically, not sure how it'd work out. Death penalty for burglary?
My point is, what are you willing to do to effectively deter criminals? If you answer that, then you can consider what Bonaire ought to do.
Richard.
Turn prisons into slave labor camps and aim to make a profit on them? I favor that.
Public flogging of thieves caught in police sting operations at dive sites with staged 'abandoned' rental trucks? Doubt the Dutch have the stomach for such tactics. I recall some years back an American tourist in Singapore participating in some vandalism who was to get caned, and the controversy back here in the U.S. over it.
A push for 'stand your ground' type legislation? Someone enters you're residence unlawfully, you gain the right to gun them down? Or club'em with a baseball bat? Might escalate the danger of burglaries for all concerned. Might get more victims hurt, although morally I believe in it; practically, not sure how it'd work out. Death penalty for burglary?
My point is, what are you willing to do to effectively deter criminals? If you answer that, then you can consider what Bonaire ought to do.
Richard.
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oldschoolto
Contributor
That was the point of my post... But you Richard are a lot nicer then me....
Jim....
Jim....
What are people willing to do?
Well, in St. Croix the tourists were willing to stay away and spend their vacation money elsewhere as a result of increasing crimes against visitors; and the cruise ships quickly found other Caribbean ports that welcomed their business. The island's economy still hasn't fully recovered. It would be a shame if that happened to Bonaire but it is not impossible.
The Caymanian Judge who gave a stiff sentence to the "repeat-offender purse-snatcher" understood that threat and said "any crime that negatively impacted the tourist industry had to be met with a deterrent sentence." That seems pretty clear and straight-forward. That's what he was willing to do.
And keep in mind that there's a major new player in the race for US tourism dollars. Now that Cuba is preparing to welcome American visitors and cruise ships I am sure that many other Caribbean countries are very worried about the impact on their economies. There will probably be about the same number of people heading to the tropics each year but now they will have another choice, and Cuban diving is reported to be very good.
All the Caribbean countries that depend heavily on the tourism industry should be trying especially hard to make themselves attractive to US visitors right now, not scare them away.
Well, in St. Croix the tourists were willing to stay away and spend their vacation money elsewhere as a result of increasing crimes against visitors; and the cruise ships quickly found other Caribbean ports that welcomed their business. The island's economy still hasn't fully recovered. It would be a shame if that happened to Bonaire but it is not impossible.
The Caymanian Judge who gave a stiff sentence to the "repeat-offender purse-snatcher" understood that threat and said "any crime that negatively impacted the tourist industry had to be met with a deterrent sentence." That seems pretty clear and straight-forward. That's what he was willing to do.
And keep in mind that there's a major new player in the race for US tourism dollars. Now that Cuba is preparing to welcome American visitors and cruise ships I am sure that many other Caribbean countries are very worried about the impact on their economies. There will probably be about the same number of people heading to the tropics each year but now they will have another choice, and Cuban diving is reported to be very good.
All the Caribbean countries that depend heavily on the tourism industry should be trying especially hard to make themselves attractive to US visitors right now, not scare them away.
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darook
Contributor
A crazy idea: mouse traps. A seemingly empty truck with mouse traps under the seats would elicit a response if someone not in the know stuck their hands under them. Just a crazy idea.
If someone encounters me directly they are likely not want to engage as I am larger, uglier, and for sure meaner if I need to be. I am actually a big putty tat but someone who does not know me wouldn't know that.
If someone encounters me directly they are likely not want to engage as I am larger, uglier, and for sure meaner if I need to be. I am actually a big putty tat but someone who does not know me wouldn't know that.
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