Body Positioning/Trim Issues

[AfterDark]

I have been trying to get someone to come out and video me. I think it should help me a lot, because right now, I am only going on feel. I could be wrong about where I am. But no matter how I feel underwater, everyone tells me my trim is "****ing awesome" or some variation of that.

Not much air is in it. The squeeze never really gets taken off though, because the air immediately rushes into the feet. My wing is my method of controlling buoyancy.




Yes, thats exactly what I was describing. However I can never move any air into my torso. Not when my feet are the highest point, which is apparently where they should be. This is why I prefer what I believe is Position C. I can actually get loft. Again, I gotta get some video first to be sure. If I get video, I will post it here.



Nada. Back then I was using 36 lbs of lead. Why? So that I COULD add air to my suit to stay warm. I just get cold easily. I was insanely overweighted then. I have not been experiencing the same cold now that the water temp has gone up a few degrees though. And im not even using Argon right now! I suspect I will need the new undergarment when winter comes back. I should be fine for summer though with the one I have. Thats a relief.




My trim is not bad. Not by any means. Part of the issue is that I did most of the first 60 dives in a wetsuit, all of the dives ~61 to ~110 using a drysuit as my main source of controlling buoyancy, and while wearing a standard back inflate BC (Scubapro knighthawk). I only very recently switched to a bp/w and thus switched to using that as my source of buoyancy control. So my kit has been getting a massive GUE-approved overhaul. As I told Superlyte, everyone sayd my trim is awesome, but I just dont FEEL like it is. Part of that is the dumping issue, which makes me feel less in control that I should be.

When I dive dry I use my suit for buoyancy control while underwater, and my BP/W on the surface. This way I'm only controlling one system at a time..

 

[ADeadlierSnake]

Tbqh, I would have been perfectly happy sticking to using my suit for buoyancy control. I hate trying to control both systems. However moving into tech, everyone says you cant do that. I have no idea why. Seems to me that it reduces taskloading drastically. The only answer I have gotten is that "a drysuit is not a buoyancy device!". Normally I would just say "**** it" and continue using my suit for buoyancy, but I have heard that in caves you will need to use your wing. And caves interest me very very much. I also believe that I have better stability when I am using the wing because theres less room for the gas to shift around. And when I switch to doubles, I suspect it will be nice to have some lift on the torso. Guess I will find out this wednesday. I am going to be trying some out for the first time

 

[Centrals]

A, B and C for me. A & B are for overhead environment.
In OW tec dive, C is the best for me. Less stressful on the neck and the knees won't disturb anything if I stay well clear from the coral, rock etc.

 

[lv2dive]

I would agree that A & B are both appropriate and C is a bit knees-dropped to be "good" trim. I think that Lynne mentioned earlier the difference in A & B is related to equipment management needs. The first time I took Fundies (diving LP95's) I was trying to get in the position shown in picture A. I was not successful. My second fundies instructor, Doug Mudry, was very clear with me that I needed to push my feet out, as in picture B, to balance the short LP95's. And suddenly I was much more stable and in control!

With 104/130's (I got rid of the LP95's) I believe I'm closer to picture A now, but mostly I'm just concerned with trying to keep my knees up so I'm not stirring up silt in the cave!

 

[DaleC]

I try for B though if I'm close to a sensitive site I try to shift to A.
C when I'm diving doublehose

 

[Centrals]

Diving in a sea horse posture, kick no one/coral, shot lots of video/pictures. Climb back to the boat/shore with 50 bars of back gas left. Big smile on the face. Everyone is HAPPY.
A safe diver is far more important than the look. You don't judge the book by its cover.
Jacket bc or BP/W, does it matter? The mind set is.

 

[arthurmnev]

Also, as far as air in the drysuit... How much air is in the suit? You should only have enough air in the suit to take the squeeze off. Your wing should be your primary method of bouyancy NOT your drysuit.

Interesting that PADI courses say exactly the opposite According to PADI, you should control your buoyancy through dry suit while under and with BCD while on the surface. That paragraph does have a caveat -- it is valid for all but technical dives as technical diving requires substantially more gear / weight thus suit alone is insufficient.

My personal position with dry suit (based on those diagrams) is

1) descent: almost always - A
b) ascent -- A or B:

I use B when coming up to ~20 - 25' since (at least for me) this seems to be the most difficult area to maintain proper buoyancy and to control rapidly expanding air bubble in the dry suit (if it does bubble to your feet instead of shoulder valve @20 feet, you might not have enough time to roll to get air out of your suit legs. For deep to ~25' I try to come up in position "A" WITH my left arm/shoulder (which is where the valve is) slightly above my torso with an elbow bent to prevent air from going into my wrist area.

Also, I found that I don't need to really add air other than to control the squeeze if properly weighted. If I maintain the same suit volume as on the surface (i.e. squeeze vs. added air) the rest of control comes from inhale / exhale part.

 

[arthurmnev]

Tbqh, I would have been perfectly happy sticking to using my suit for buoyancy control. I hate trying to control both systems. However moving into tech, everyone says you cant do that. I have no idea why. Seems to me that it reduces taskloading drastically. The only answer I have gotten is that "a drysuit is not a buoyancy device!". Normally I would just say "**** it" and continue using my suit for buoyancy, but I have heard that in caves you will need to use your wing. And caves interest me very very much. I also believe that I have better stability when I am using the wing because theres less room for the gas to shift around. And when I switch to doubles, I suspect it will be nice to have some lift on the torso. Guess I will find out this wednesday. I am going to be trying some out for the first time

You have to control dry suit for squeeze whether you are tech or not. You won't be able to get enough lift in dry suit alone with tech since you will be too heavy with extra tanks

Besides, you want to put as little as possible air in dry suit to avoid air in your legs so it boils down to
a) control one system for no tech
B) control two systems to get enough lift and deal with extra weight

 

[ADeadlierSnake]

Just switched to doubles, and all the problems I listed in this thread miraculously disappeared. No more doing that "dance". Instead I am now holding my trim without issue (still need to see video of it though), having no problems with dumping, and holding my buoyancy within a 1-2 ft window while task loaded. Moral of the story: Doubles <expletive deleted> rock.

 

[arthurmnev]

Just switched to doubles, and all the problems I listed in this thread miraculously disappeared. No more doing that dance. Instead I am now holding my trim without issue (still need to see video of it though), having no problems with dumping, and holding my buoyancy within a 1-2 ft window while task loaded. Moral of the story: Doubles <expletive deleted> rock.

Not sure what doubles would have to do with this other than extra weight, and better distributed weight on your back. I guess there is a question of what kind of doubles Aluminum or Steel. And if AL -- how are you doing towards the end of the dive when you have ~500 psi left (since this is when AL will become positive)