Boat captain encouraging wreck penetration

[Lorenzoid]

The "I told her" struck me as a bit forceful, too. Good buddies "discuss" or "propose" plans and then reach a mutual decision, even if the more experienced buddy may have to explain her reasoning to the less experienced buddy.

The end result--the decision to turn at 1000--was great, though, in my opinion.

 

[Marie13]

I think you missed my point: I was saying that dive planning is a collaborative exercise of the team, no matter whether someone has as few as 20 or 100 or as many as several thousand of dives to their name. It has to be a discussion, and in the end, the plan everyone is comfortable with, usually the most conservative one, prevails. Just telling a buddy "your turn pressure is XXX 'cause I have more dives than you" does a disservice to everyone.

Did it occur to you that instabuddy didn't bring turn pressure up? I said it right before we descended. I was looking out for her, which others did for me when I was very green and didn't know better.

It doesn't matter. I'm out.

 

[The Chairman]

Yes, each diver having their c-card on them is a Coast Guard requirement.

No. This is not true. The coast guard has rules about the alpha flag use only.

Scuba diving is a mostly a self-regulated sport in the USA and most of the world. There is no law to have your tanks inspected every year. The DOT regulates hydros and what tanks are acceptable here in the US. There is no law about having to have a c-card to get a tank filled with the gas of your choice. There is no law about how deep you can or cannot go. Laws about Diver Down flags are state and local only and there is no requirement when you're out of State waters. Certainly, it's easier to enforce a rule that has an appearance of being a law, but that only muddies the waters. There might even be insurance regulations, but mostly this is cited to justify their own rules. In any event: you are under the jurisdiction of the Captain when you're on his boat. He can require you to wear fluffy bunny slippers on his boat and you have to comply or you're breaking Coast Guard Regulations to obey the Captain at all times. In the same way, shops have the right to refuse service to anyone. Hell, I've been refused service because I've disagreed with a shop owner here on ScubaBoard. I just drove a bit further and now will never recommend him to anyone.

Word of mouth can be powerful, but not as powerful as word of internet. When claims are made about a boat or dive op here on SB that does not jive with the experience of others, then the drama often begins. It's not always comfortable when people disagree with you and it would be wrong to suggest that they are attacking you. No, they aren't attacking anything but presenting a different view point that many might appreciate. You might even find a misconception or two of yours that gets changed. That's the beauty of ScubaBoard. I appreciate when people disagree with me. I want to discover the truth rather than try to prove that I'm always right. I posted something about rebreathers that really concerned @Capt Tom McCarthy (my SF2 instructor) to the point that he gave me a rather harsh post. Dayum. Rather than fight back I thanked him for it. Yes, I'm glad he bopped me over the head verbally and even more glad that I evolved my understanding even further. It's all good.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have never had to show a card on a boat where they expect the divers to know what they are doing. In Lake Erie, I've never shown a card to Osprey. In Monterey, they never asked to see one. I filled out the paperwork on line, showed up at the dock with my gear, my name was on the manifest so they let me dive. Florida, Bonaire, and Puerto Rico where they get a lot of vacation/tourist divers, they wanted to see a card at the office but not on the boat.

In the St. Lawrence same thing. The boat captain didn't care about c cards. Shop made the arrangements and booked the dives. Passport? Oh yeah. Since we were diving a mix out of Brockville of Canadian and American side wrecks.

As for planning, be back with 500 PSI or 1000 PSI is not a plan. In Erie we know each others SAC rates and base the plan on those along with the depth, time, mix, and if we want a little deco to be part of it. I like diving Erie with the boat I do because having a buddy is not a requirement. Ok if you do, but if you don't and you are on that boat they assume you know the game and don't need to be told you have to dive with someone. If you choose not to, no problem.

Last time I was out with them I wanted to shoot photos. A group books the whole boat and sends out emails that we have X spots. If you're quick you get one. You send your money, show up, get on the boat and dive. I didn't even fill out a waiver because they know it's not worth the paper it's written on and can still be sued. The boat's a taxi.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Did it occur to you that instabuddy didn't bring turn pressure up? I said it right before we descended.

Well, while discussing the plan a little more in advance would have been ideal, better late than never! Don't worry, Marie. When I was as new a diver as you, I don't think I knew the term "turn pressure." You're a safe diver and you're doing great.

 

[kafkaland]

Did it occur to you that instabuddy didn't bring turn pressure up? I said it right before we descended. I was looking out for her, which others did for me when I was very green and didn't know better.

It doesn't matter. I'm out.

Well, this just means you didn't bring it up, either, before you splashed. I think it is an appropriate role for the more experienced buddy to lead the pre-dive discussion, making sure nothing gets missed. But you still want to treat the less-experienced diver as a responsible peer. You never know when he might catch a flaw in your plan. Even with as little as 20 or 100 dives he or she is your backup brain. And at the end of the day, it's still the most conservative plan that prevails.

 

[diver0008]

Doesn't matter how I respond.

5 words that speak volumes.

 

[diver0008]

Regarding the c-card thing, the uncertainty seems to be about whether it is presented at the dive shop/pier when any forms or waivers are signed, or on the boat. My experience has always been the former, never the latter.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

No. This is not true. The coast guard has rules about the alpha flag use only.

.

As the owner of Double Action Dive Charters, who's link has been mentioned about the coast guard request. Yes, they want us to have all divers have their C card, this is also a DNR request. If you know DNR or CG, if they ask, you just comply on something this easy and simple. Could have been the CG guy that was in the area for a few years, as they rotate out and the next guy could care less. To me, I don't care, it's also is a good thing for us to check as a boat since people can signup online with no Cert check in place.. You can never be safe enough. It's not a requirement, but they have asked, and we easily and willingly comply. Somethings are just easier to comply with, and not fight.

So, who's coming diving on the Great Lakes with us?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Mike, is there no office where divers check in upon arrival? I could see checking C-cards on the boat if there is in fact no office and divers just proceed directly to the boat.