Big Mistake

[Raven C]

I am not coming to anyone's rescue but yours now because your post is incorrect in that you say he jumped into DIR because he thought it was better. That is not true. As a matter of fact he didn't think that DIR was better. He wanted to learn more about DIR because he was actually anti-DIR. When he began to learn and took the DIRF course he realized that they taught a better way of doing most skills and techniques for diving. Furthermore, he found out that he had to eat some of his words because he personally felt that DIR may be the best once he had taken the course. So for you to post that is incorrect.

You asked for help in understanding your mistake ...
We all make mistakes but it only when our ego's won't let us admit it that we don't learn for it.

He openly admitted he made a mistake.

You may say you don't have an EGO but look at your goals. ...Then your quest for a world record. What does that prove to anyone, who will benifit from that, no one except your EGO (Ego says again I have to be the best and I'll prove it by holding a record) Now since I don't know you by anything else except your posts so could be I've got the wrong impression. If I'm wrong I'm sure you or raven will let me know.

Everyone here has an EGO. As for a record attempt. I would call that aspiration. A goal. I asked him if he was trying to impress someone, why would you want to do it? He responded that he had always appreciated the effort that people had put into accomplishing a world record. Well, I say, some people dream, some people wish and some people do. Which one are you Geek?

My best advice is that you need to sit down and really think about why you dive and what you want out of diving.

SJ does that every day.

Plan for it and get the training that will help you achive that goal.

He's doing that too.

This is not intended as a flame or to be hurtfull

Then why don't you post only the facts.

Yes, SJ got frustrated on the board yesterday because of the battery of insulting posts. He was receptive to the wise and pertainent information with the exception of when he stated that he disagreed. He admitted he made a mistake. He is understanding where, why, and how he did.

My post was only to stop people from posting in accurate information and repeating other information over and over. But that is all. Say what you want about me "comming to his rescue" as you put it, but I like others on this board, read and read the information and had I not been Raven, you would not have posted the way you did. There have been others to voice that there has been good information and crap posted. You don't feel the need to address that because I was the only one to ask for the post to stay on track and not get ugly. I don't like to read ugly posts. There are plenty here that I read that get ugly. But if I am not going to learn from the information I leave. And, honestly, I had hoped that people did either get back on track or leave. But no, that didn't happen.

There were many who learned a lot from some of the posts early on. That's all.

If you feel the need to post like you did I could say nothing if the information was factual. All I ask is that you get the facts right.

But thanks for your concern for safety. R

 

[SeaJay]

Hoppy once bubbled...

I'm interested in the arching technique you mention, care to PM a bit more info ? Or on here if you wanna risk the flames , your choice but I'd like to understand a bit better exactly what you mean.

Sure, man.

Flames are something that I'm accustomed to now, unfortunately. I'm pretty much getting used to it.

The arch-back thing... Ever seen a skydiver, and the way their back arches? That's the objective. Arched back, knees at a right angle, and feet/fins horizontal.

It's surprisingly easy to do underwater, since the water supports your body so well.

The position gives excellent control in all planes, and keeps your fins off of the bottom... Good for a variety of reasons.

I find that in heavy currents, the only thing that changes about my position is that I lessen the degree of bend at my knees.

 

[GeekDiver]

Well....

I'm glad you took my post as constructive.

"He openly admitted he made a mistake."

Admitting you made a mistake doesn't require you learn or take responsibility for the mistake

"Then why don't you post only the facts."

I didn't post facts because it was my impression that I received of Seajays motives and as such are subjective so do not qualify as a fact, unless Seajay would want to confirm it.

I'm still not trying to be hurtful, only offering my viewpoint as to what I see is a larger mistake in his motivation behind his diving asperations. I also didn't view several of the posts Seajay or yourself disagreed with as insulting. Well you could say some took a cheap shot or two but you must admit that both you and Seajay have been very defensive about all of this.

Like I said before I wish you both well and I'm glad he is ok. If you and Seajay can say you have learned because of this and are now better divers even better yet.

I know that in text you can't see the true emotions of others so If I have the wrong impression of SeaJay's motives behind his diving it's understandable and can happen.

Hopefully you will also be understandable as well and belive me that I didn't have any other motive other than concern by expressing a viewpoint that may have had some merit. I don't know either of you on a personal level so I'll have to accept your statement that Seajay is not motivated by ego.

Geek

 

[Zagnut]

 

[Pez de Diablo]

Ohh my

Move it along people, there's nothing to see here.

Plenty of other constructive posts to contribute to.

Move it along now

 

[SeaJay]

GeekDiver once bubbled...

Seajay ask's for feedback on his mistakes takes a bit of heat then spends his time defending and makeing excuses on how or why he made the mistakes. Then lashes back becuse he takes it too personel. Then we have Raven comming to his rescue.

That's not at all the nature of the posts.

1. I never asked to be crucified. I never asked for feedback.
2. The post was designed to help and be productive. Discussion was certainly in order, and I was prepared to take flak. Personal attacks, however, were still uncalled for.
3. This is now totally off-topic. There is another thread where the topic was picked back up, dusted off, and new life breathed into it. Now your focus here is me and my actions. Please stop talking about me. It makes you sound pathetic.
4. I did not lash back... Ever. Reread, please. I remained very polite through the whole ordeal.
5. RavenC is my girl. She kicks ass. She can come to my rescue anytime... As I would her. Buddies do that sort of thing for each other... Even if it's hardly a "rescue" as you put it.

Now before you post back I don't know either of you personaly and have nothing against either of you.

Well, then you can stop right there. The essence of your sentence above is, "I have no idea anything about you, but I'm going to give you my opinion anyway." We don't care.

SeaJay you knew you were going to take some heat for your post. You say your Ok with takeing a bit of heat. Why don't you just stop, Take the posts for whatever value there worth and try and learn where you messed up and how not to let it happen again. You can't defend a mistake like this but you can learn from it.

I never defended my mistake.

I believe that somewhere around page two we figured out how to prevent this problem again and we've moved on with our lives. Not until Nanook got involved, with his horrible attitude, did things go awry.

You asked for help in understanding your mistake

Not really. No, I don't think I did.

Nonetheless, it was still welcome when those "in the know" pointed out some things.

Taking advice from someone who just told the board that he's never dived a day in his life, has never seen a DIR class, and knows nothing about diving... Well... All I can say is what I said before. "Thanks for sharing. I'll consider your comments carefully."

but then refuse to listen to anyone who post that you don't agree with and then attack back.

They're not attacks.

Look, let's say that you'd nearly had a car accident. Let's say that you looked up in the rearview mirror and saw that you'd just blown a red light.

That's a pretty serious situation, don't you think?

Of course. Now imagine that you'd grown up in that town and had never noticed a red light on that corner before. You'd make a special note of if from then on, wouldn't you? You might even tell your friends, "Hey, there's a red light at the corner of such-and-such and whozit." You might even tell someone, "Wow... I didn't even know the light was there... I RAN it the other day! Man, that coulda been really serious! Maybe next time I'll be extra careful at that intersection."

Now, when other people chime in with, "Yeah, there's also another new light at the corner of whatzit and howe," you'd thank them for the advice. If someone else came in and said, "I always take a passenger with me because two sets of eyes are better than one," you might roll your eyes but still consider the information.

But if someone came rushing in (someone that nobody's ever seen before) spouting, "You should have your license taken away! Maybe you can get a refund! You're DANGEROUS! I'm not lying... You're gonna kill someone!"

Well, you'd be understandably less patient with that individual... Especially if you found out that they didn't have a driver's license, had never had a driver's license, and had never driven a car before.

You'd just tell them to sit down and shut up and be a good passenger.

We all make mistakes but it only when our ego's won't let us admit it that we don't learn for it.

Yes, yes. I hear you. Perhaps I need to validate your existence, too, like I did for Nanook. I hear you. I should be sorry. I made a mistake. My ego is now in check. I have learned from my sin. By the way, you might want to reread the title of this thread... And the first and all of my subsequent posts again... To see all of the "self admissions" of the mistake.

Like Nanook, pointing out that I made a mistake is redundant and irritating. Yes, yes... You're right. A mistake was made.

What do you want me to do, write it in blood for you?

If you go back and reread all of the posts, you'll see that there is no ego problem. That's something that you made up.

If we knew what was wrong when we made the mistake we wouldn't need for someone to tell us we were wrong and wouldn't ask.

I didn't ask.

I knew I was wrong.

That's why I called this thread "The Big Mistake." It implies that I did something wrong. Get it?

The biggest mistake I think your makeing is your EGO which I think dosn't have a place in safe diving. At some point in time that EGO will kick in and get you hurt.

Oh, fer cryin' out loud. Yeah, dude... You right. Me wrong. I'm sorry I was even born; is that better?

Next time I guess I just won't mention it. I bet that you don't either, the next time you make a mistake.

Where I come from, that means that I admit them which is a direct reflection on my character. If you don't... Well, that's also a direct reflection of your character.

You may say you don't have an EGO but look at your goals.

Oh, I'm sorry. Should I lower them for you?

When you found out about DIR you jumped in overhead because you thought this was such a better dive system (ego says I have to be the best and have the best). Then your quest for a world record. What does that prove to anyone, who will benifit from that, no one except your EGO (Ego says again I have to be the best and I'll prove it by holding a record) Now since I don't know you by anything else except your posts so could be I've got the wrong impression. If I'm wrong I'm sure you or raven will let me know.

If you had any idea what you were talking about, then you'd have read the world record dive post... And know why I'm committed to it.

If you don't know, then please stop making reasons up.

My best advice is that you need to sit down and really think about why you dive and what you want out of diving. Plan for it and get the training that will help you achive that goal. If you dive because of some ego trip then no matter what training you get it will never be enough to meet the need that your ego will push untill you reach the point where you push too far and get hurt.

I truly know that you mean well, and just have no idea that you're clueless.

No problem. I can be patient with that.

This is not intended as a flame or to be hurtfull but I am concerned and wish you well in all your endevors.

Geek

Yes, yes... Thank you very much for caring so much about my safety.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Will everyone who hasn't done anything stupid while diving, raise your hand.



Liars!

As long as you learn from your mistakes, no harm, no incident report!

 

[SeaJay]

Thanks, PhotoTJ.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[GeekDiver]

Hey I thought this was a closed thread

OK SeaJay,

"I never asked to be crucified. I never asked for feedback.
The post was designed to help and be productive. Discussion was certainly in order, and I was prepared to take flak. Personal attacks, however, were still uncalled for."

Your right you didn't ask for it.

Here's what you said:

"Okay, I was telling a friend about my mistake last weekend which could have had pretty big consequences... And it dawned on me that other people could learn from my mistake, so I think it appropriate to share.

...Even though it might not paint me in such a good light. Please be nice, y'all. "

Your right you didn't asked to be crucified and I'm not trying to nail you to cross. (at least not for the moment) I took it as being implied that you were asking for help to understand. My Bad thanks for helping me understand why you posted.

So since you intend for us to learn, what is the lesson we should take from your experiance? Plese let me know so we can clear that up as well.

If it was that we should plan our dive and dive our plan or that we should be familure and understand how our eq works before diving with it. Thanks, but I learned that in PADI BOW class, but your right most don't catch that part in training and have to learn the hard way like you did. At least you survived to tell the story and stress the importance.

Here is your replie about you record attempt:

"If you had any idea what you were talking about, then you'd have read the world record dive post... And know why I'm committed to it."

As far as the world record what is the goal and reason behind it. Let us all know so we can't twist or misunderstand that as well

Here is what I have read about your record attempt and what you have stated about your goals and the purpose behind the attempt.

In fact, I've already got my mind set on another, much riskier record... But first I have to hit this one. Breaking this record won't be the "goal." That's just a step to the goal.

But like your also said (which I do view as a hostil remark):

"I truly know that you mean well, and just have no idea that you're clueless.

Sure I'm clueless your right, but I've never made a mistake that put me into deco, I've never been bent and I've never reach a point where I was concerned that I would run out of air.

I did make one mistake. I made a mistake for showing concern in your well being which I won't ever do again!


Geek

PS I'm still being nice but if you like, I'll be happy to start nailing you to the cross as I think you thrive on the attention.

 

[MikeS]

Geekdiver,

While we’re asking for clarification, what was the point of your post? It didn’t contain any new information or perspective on the issue; kind of looks like you were just poking Seajay with a verbal stick. Maybe I’m wrong, if so I apologize. Or maybe being dense, I just missed your point.

Mike