Better value: used gear, or new gear + free servicing?

[Bob DBF]

Lifetime servicing and parts on the gear package

Are you sure that isn't "free parts for life", there is a difference.

Although I am all for buying used regs, you have to know what you are looking at or it may not be a bargain. Some dive shops sell serviced used regs, if you ask, and in the Regulator section of Scubaboard there are a number of members that occasionally sell reg sets that I wouldn't think twice about buying if I needed one.

Good Luck

 

[Cdncoldwater]

Apeks/Aqualung has "parts for life"; you still usually pay labour. As stated by many I would try different BCDs before you buy one if possible and cold water regs are good if you plan on diving different areas or going into other aspects of diving. I've owned and dove the titan and it was a nice regulator; great in warm water but froze up and free flowed at 55ft at 47F. where I mainly dive it is cold water regs only. from where I sit in Canada that $850 is a wicked deal but in the US you have very affordable, high quality and self service supported regulators such as DGX. I have. amid of used and new, BCDs are used, some fins a drysuit I gave to my son. My regs (less the titans which I sold) are new and are Apeks and Dive Rite. I bought the Dive Rite because the cost difference would take 5 service visits to match the initial cost of an Apeks set and I love them.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I was one who bought a complete set of gear before I finished my OW class, including two cylinders. Except for my mask and the tanks, everything was replaced within a year or so. It didn't meet my needs. The gear I replaced it with lasted much longer. I still have two of the regs and the backplate and harness I got after selling the jacket BC 13 years later and they still get used. I replaced the wing because I became a dealer for another brand.
I now also have enough gear personally to outfit 6 divers in different configurations for my personal use. Plus 3-4 sets of student gear.
I tend to stay away from packages and my students don't have standard packages pushed on them. I can put packages together but they are tailored to the individual's needs, wants, and budget rather than my bottom line.
For 850 bucks I can put together a set of gear, minus the computer, that will last a diver from OW through trimix with some additions down the road.
The mask, snorkel, fin, boots package I usually recommend starts at 125 and goes up from there with the top being in the 200-225 range. Pushing a $400 package on a new diver is just nuts and making them buy a weight belt when you are going to try and sell them an integrated BC is just a little fishy to me.
If I did recommend a belt it wouldn't be from me. I'd recommend the $36 Mako free diving belt, which would still come in usually at under 200 bucks for the complete set. I've never recommended paying more than 15 bucks for a snorkel.

 

[Damselfish]

I was also wondering about the "free parts and service" bit. Some brands offer free parts as long as you get it serviced every year, but the actual service you pay for. The parts look like a deal because they're normally expensive to you, but they're cheap for them. The manufacturers are helping their dealers by encouraging a income stream on service. Service typically isn't cheap, and if you miss one year the deal is probably off (Some brands used to allow reinstatement of the free parts, but I don't know if that's true anymore.)

So check if it is really free service. I assume you will still be living close enough to this shop?

I stopped servicing on the recommended schedule long ago. Costs much more to pay for service every year to get free parts, than it does to simply pay for service when needed. And about the only time I ever have problems is after service. I believe many people do the same. Depends on your diving, and is a decision you have to make for yourself.

 

[IndigoBunting]

Thank you everyone for your advice and insights. It's been very helpful.

as long as the shop is solid and not going out of business and actually provides good quality servicing on your regs etc. what are the conditions ? service every year ? every 2 years ?

Are you sure that isn't "free parts for life", there is a difference.

The dive shop has been in business for 45 years. I suppose that's not necessarily a guarantee of anything for the future though. It is actually free servicing, not just parts. However, good point about how often they do that servicing, etc. I will have to ask them to clarify all the conditions.

For 850 bucks I can put together a set of gear, minus the computer, that will last a diver from OW through trimix with some additions down the road.
The mask, snorkel, fin, boots package I usually recommend starts at 125 and goes up from there with the top being in the 200-225 range. Pushing a $400 package on a new diver is just nuts and making them buy a weight belt when you are going to try and sell them an integrated BC is just a little fishy to me.

What would you recommend for this set of gear, (and what would you recommend for a computer)? I do hesitate to blame the shop, as they did offer a range of options on the mask, fins, etc. where I could've got a cheaper set. I knew next to nothing about diving when I made these purchases, however, so I picked their mid-price-range stuff as I was afraid of going the cheapest route. I should've done my research beforehand. I don't mind the $80 for the mask so much, as I had to try several to find one to fit my face and I'd rather pay a little more for a well-fitting mask. The fins and booties though I could've got for much less lightly used. And yes, I really regret the $50 I spent on the dry snorkel, when the cheap snorkel that I already owned would've worked perfectly fine. Again, knew next to nothing about diving, didn't realize that you didn't need a special snorkel for it. But I should've done my research, so I don't know that I can blame the shop (maybe I can?).

Buy new gear that has user avaliable parts kits and learn to service it yourself.

Assuming service every two years at a cost of $100 per service...

I stopped servicing on the recommended schedule long ago. Costs much more to pay for service every year to get free parts, than it does to simply pay for service when needed.

I will look into learning to service gear myself as that does appeal to me. From everything I've read, I was under the impression that servicing less than annually was considered risky/unsafe. Is that just an industry recommendation and is it common for divers to service less often or only when problems arise?

 

[IndigoBunting]

It's research, which as a student you are used to.

Yes; I have been doing a lot of research, to the detriment of my studies I am afraid... And great points you bring up here. I know that I am mainly interested in local warm water diving. However, I must say caves and wrecks sound pretty awesome. I know technical diving is it's own road to go down, and not a budget-conscious one either. So I don't know how practical that is for me, at least not at this point in my life. I do like the idea of buying nicer/more versatile gear up front, like a BP/W bcd as you suggested. On the other hand, I don't want to make a huge initial investment if I don't end up having the time/desire to dive as much as I think I will. I know that's something only I can decide; I will continue to research.

I appreciate everyone's input so far.

 

[formernuke]

My advice to new divers

Here is my advice. Best gear varies by person, type of diving and personal preference.

 

[rick00001967]

From everything I've read, I was under the impression that servicing less than annually was considered risky/unsafe. Is that just an industry recommendation and is it common for divers to service less often or only when problems arise?

the standard answer.....it depends. haha

if you dive 100 dives a year and all are in salt water, then once a year would be the minimum in my opinion. if you do not have sealed regs you might do them every 6 months

if however you dive sealed regs in cold fresh water and only dive 25 dives a year then annual servicing may not be required.

 

[IndigoBunting]

My advice to new divers

Here is my advice. Best gear varies by person, type of diving and personal preference.

Great thread; thank you.

 

[rx7diver]

Are there people who get an initial gear set and dive with it for years and years, or is it usually necessary to upgrade after a couple years?

@IndigoBunting,

In 1987 I purchased a new regulator (Scubapro Mk 10 1st stage + Balanced Adjustable 2nd stage + SPG + 150' depth gauge), my first, when I was a graduate student.

In 1988, I purchased a second new regulator (Scubapro Mk 10 + G250 + SPG + 150' depth gauge) when I was about to drive down to Ginnie Springs FL for cavern- and basic cave diving certifications. (The two regulators were used with a Y-valve on a single tank during those two certification courses.)

I purchased and installed 300 Br. DIN conversions for both first stages in 1988 (when I purchased my first scuba cylinders), and I purchased and installed "Plus" conversions in 1993 or so (to convert each "Mk 10" into a "Mk 10 Plus", when I started receiving "cave fills" in these PST HP cylinders).

In 1994 or so, I purchased a new Scubapro D400 2nd stage to use with one of my Mk 10's (because I made the mistake of breathing from a friend's D400 and became immediately smitten by its goodness).

I service my regulators, myself--except for my D400 and 2nd gen A.I.R. II (which I purchased new in 1994 or so, to replace my 1st gen A.I.R. II--which I had sold in order to afford my second regulator described above).

I still use all of these regulators when diving in temperate waters. And a couple of years ago, I gave my then-preteens their introduction to scuba, using these regulators, in a backyard pool.

So, yes, there are people who get an initial gear set and dive with it for years and years. I don't expect to ever replace these Scubapro regulators.

ETA: Also, I purchased my first fins (Scubapro Jet Fins) in 1986. I still dive these.

rx7diver