Best used regulators? First stage? Second Stage? What exactly is Conshelf?

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@buddhasummer @couv In reading another thread, there were several posters who were inquiring as to why one would want to mix/match new regulator first and 2nd stages. There was concern about having to adjust pressure settings. With doing mix/match of these older 1st and 2nd stages, would there be any issues besides just connecting them with a serviceable hose?

Any thoughts on the MK10 vs Conshelf first stage as to which would be better at depth, cold water, more easily converted to cold water?

Thanks

You need to tune the second stage to the first but in almost all cases this can be done as operating range is most often in the 125-145psi range. You'll have no issues marrying SP regs with AL regs.

Both the MK10 and Conshelf are balanced, I doubt you could tell the difference. I'm a diaphragm guy so I'd pick a Conshelf, couv is a piston guy.

Both can be sealed but MK10 is harder and messier than a dry sealed Conshelf.

How cold is cold?
 
Going down another path - I normally dive a MK15 and M109 balanced. I got a couple MK2 from someone trimming their kit. Picked them up to see what they were actually like. Easiest reg to service I've ever been into. Been diving it in the Pacific NW (~50*F right now) with an assortment of 2nds, just testing things out. I'm not as keen on the 'wagon wheel' routing, but from a user perspective it works as well as my MK15 or MK14. I've taken it down to under 500psi (safety stop depth-so that makes a difference) and I notice no change in breathing effort. I know a balanced 2nd affects effort a lot across the pressure change, but I tried that with an old unbalanced Calypso the other day and it worked just as well.
They've been around forever and pretty much proven themselves. Seems a very decent reg.
 
There was concern about having to adjust pressure settings.
Given the two first stage models (and most others) we are discussing mixing another manufactures' second stage is not an issue as their IP range is basically the same. Having said that, in order to fine tune ANY second stage one needs the first stage that it's going to be paired with. Of course, the Balanced Adjustable (aka 156) being pneumatically balanced has the advantage over the inferior unbalanced Connie.

Any thoughts on the MK10 vs Conshelf first stage as to which would be better at depth,

No difference to the diver-just to the machines that measure such things.

Any thoughts on the MK10 vs Conshelf first stage as to which would be better at ..... cold water....
If you mean ice or near freezing, the Conshelf has the advantage.
 
I think you’re looking at this wrong. It has been a long time since the US Diver’s Conshelf SE2 came out. It is the 1st and only regulator I have ever owned – since 1990 (~250). Not because I can’t afford a new one, but because it works. My US Divers BC was the Cousteau and cost $400 in 1990! Gear prices have come down since the 90s! I got a nice Aeris weight integrated BC a few years ago brand ner for about $250.

I guess my point is, you can get brand new gear and not break the piggy bank as long as you don’t think you have to have the Mercedes Benz.
 
Personally, I'd contact Couv and see if he can put together a nice MK10/156 set for you, performance wise you'll not do much better, if at all. Simple, reliable and high performing.

Plug: or two new G250Vs from me.
 
Hello,

What are the best used regulators?

Any of the higher quality regulators perform just fine. The main difference is parts availability.

  • What is exactly is a Conshelf? From my reading, it appears to be the first stage manufactured by US Divers later bought out by Aqualung (1960's) which also bought out Apeks? If Conshelf refers to just the first stage then why are not discussions based on just talking about first stages. Are the discussions using a short hand whereas it is understood that conshelf regulators mean only the first stage. If so, this is confusing for a newbie as we generally think of a set(1st stage, 2nd stage and even perhaps console). The conversations seem to be conflating first stage and 2nd stage. Is this done because the 2nd stage of the US Divers/Aqualung basically has not changed much over the years(see first thread below on Why is the Conshelf so reliable). Besides the difference between plastic and chromed brass(which provides a somewhat wet feel that some prefer as there is no dry mouth) the 2nd stage has not really changed. Is this correct? Would the same be the case for the first stage?

Generally regulators have been (and still are) sold as sets. A "Conshelf" regulator is a set consisting of a 1st stage and one or more 2nd stages.

The waters are muddied by the fact that Aqua Lung used the same 2nd stages on several of their products, including the Calypso, Aquarius, and many others. They also used several different 2nd stages over the product life of the Conshelf.

  • Are there versions on the conshelf first or 2nd stage that one should avoid

The most useful versions for actual diving are the Conshelf XIV and later because the Conshelf XII and earlier versions don't have enough LP ports. They also cannot accept a DIN conversion The differences between the XIV and later models have to do with port configuration. Some versions have an oversize LP port (marketing gimmick) that requires an adapter or can be blocked off. Most versions use the smaller HP port (same size as the LP port), but can accept an adapter or custom HP hose. I find that the XIV has the best port placement overall even though it requires an adapter for the HP hose (or a custom hose), but the later ones work OK too.

The "supreme" version adds an environmental seal, more on this below. There are also DIN versions. While it is possible to convert non-DIN to DIN, the parts to do so are no longer available.

Any of the early second stages that have the exhaust valve in the middle of the diaphragm should be avoided by anyone but collectors because important parts are no longer available.

I avoid the plastic second stages mainly out of personal preference. Since most regulator sets on the market were originally sold when only one second stage was used, it is sometimes necessary to combine sets to create something useful. I also replace all hoses and usually replace the SPG.

  • Is the conshelf environmentally sealed for colder diving? At what temperature would one need an environmentally sealed first stage? Are 2nd stages ever environmentally sealed? I read in the forums that one person had his first stage seize up/stop working at 50 degrees.

There are three versions of the "supreme" or environmentally sealed Conshelf. The original one fills the spring chamber with silicone oil and has a solid secondary seal. The EFA "external fine adjust" also fills the spring chamber with silicone oil, but has a hole in the secondary seal allowing an adjustment screw to protrude so that the IP can be adjusted without removing the seal (which is a messy process). I have one of each. There is also a dry seal kit.

I dive extensively in cold water and find that the Conshelf regs perform fine regardless of whether they have an environmental seal.

The environmental seals complicate service but not severely. It is possible to convert from environmentally sealed, to non-sealed, and back, by exchanging a handful of parts including the spring, spring housing, adjustment screw, secondary seal ring, and so on.

I find that the 2nd stages perform well in cold water and believe that the metal housing contributes to this, even though there is an absence of solid test data.


They aren't any better than anything else. The reason they have a strong following is that they are abundant and have good parts availability.
 
While it is possible to convert non-DIN to DIN, the parts to do so are no longer available.
DIN conversion kit that fits Conshelf XIV and some others still available new, retail though is $250.
 
Personally, I'd contact Couv and see if he can put together a nice MK10/156 set for you, performance wise you'll not do much better, if at all. Simple, reliable and high performing.

Plug: or two new G250Vs from me.


@buddhasummer Thx. Do you mean this set up below? Just curious, why would you want the G250V but recommend the 109BA to me? Does it have to do with ease of servicing? See video that I will post in a second regarding another post. It covers the breakdown repair of the 109. With the G250V which first stage would you go with. The one below is the MK25. @couv and others, any opinions?


Scubapro MK 25 / G250 V Regulator | Best Scuba Regulators | Best Scuba Deals
 
@buddhasummer Thx. Do you mean this set up below? Just curious, why would you want the G250V but recommend the 109BA to me? Does it have to do with ease of servicing? See video that I will post in a second regarding another post. It covers the breakdown repair of the 109. With the G250V which first stage would you go with. The one below is the MK25. @couv and others, any opinions?


Scubapro MK 25 / G250 V Regulator | Best Scuba Regulators | Best Scuba Deals

I'm selling brand new G250Vs. It was a shameless plug on the off chance you might be interested. They are not metal, I thought you wanted metal. Performance is all but identical, servicing is all but identical, I'm a diaphragm guy, anything Apeks.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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