Best positioning for strobe to reduce backscatter

[John Gulliver]

This is a stupid argument! I'd be willing to bet that the number of underwater housings for dSLR's sold by Ikelite, Sea & Sea, Subal, Aquatica, Hugyfot, Seacam, Nauticam, Nimar and Fantasea together during the last couple of years alone totals several thousand. If half of the purchasers (a conseravtive guess) use dual strobes, that would mean many by any reasonable definition.

 

[Jak Crow]

Scott Gietler's Underwater Photography Guide has a lot of good information on exactly this issue.

Thanks. This article gave me just what I was looking for.

As for the other issues being brought up, I am just looking for some basic suggestions, and again, I can't get a 2nd strobe yet.

I just got dive certified this year, and only started with photos in the last few months. I'm using a Canon SX230, a Fantasea Nano strobe (yes yes, not a $500 strobe. don't care right now), and a Fantasea Nano focus light. My photos are at http://picasaweb.google.com/jakcrow. The first 24 shots were taken this weekend on the first day I've used the strobe. The rest have been taken over the past few months using the camera's flash. Not every pic I post is pristine. Sometimes I just like what's in the shot.

 

[vladimir]

If you're spending the money to house a DSLR, you should be using two strobes. And that is most often the case, in my experience. I think that the majority of serious photographers are using housed DSLRs, although I do see some great photos from point-and-shoots, and it depends on what you consider serious. My definition is somebody who uses a housed DSLR with two strobes , but a better definition might be somebody whose dive and travel choices are driven by his photography. The litmus test would be whether he has gone, or would like to go, to Lembeh.

Let me go out on a limb and say that a divemaster/instructor in Hawaii (like Halemano, for example) probably does not see a representative sampling of serious photographers, since Hawaii is not what I'd consider a top dive destination from a photographer's point of view. At the same time, let me concede that some of the pictures Halemano has taken with whatever POS point-and-shoot he is using are better than any I have taken with my housed DSLR with two strobes.

 

[John Gulliver]

Let me go out on a limb and say that a divemaster/instructor in Hawaii (like Halemano, for example) probably does not see a representative sampling of serious photographers, since Hawaii is not what I'd consider a top dive destination from a photographer's point of view.

Exactly! I was going to make the same comment if he reverted and persisted with the same line of argument.

 

[PatW]

I have recently gone from 1 strobe to 2 strobes. It seems to me that using 2 strobes set out of the direct line of the camera lens and preferrably in opposite poles or planes greatly diminishes observed backscatter. In facts, I have gone on dives with a fair amount of stuff in the water (visibility around 40-50') and the photos look surprisingly clear. I guess the 2 beams of light coming in from different directions kind of negates backscatter pretty effectively. Of course, getting as close as possible is good too. I would suggest that if you are diving with a DSLR to certainly get 2 strobes.

 

[Jak Crow]

I have recently gone from 1 strobe to 2 strobes. It seems to me that using 2 strobes set out of the direct line of the camera lens and preferrably in opposite poles or planes greatly diminishes observed backscatter. In facts, I have gone on dives with a fair amount of stuff in the water (visibility around 40-50') and the photos look surprisingly clear. I guess the 2 beams of light coming in from different directions kind of negates backscatter pretty effectively. Of course, getting as close as possible is good too. I would suggest that if you are diving with a DSLR to certainly get 2 strobes.

Can you post a picture of your camera and strobes showing how you'd have them set up?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Let me go out on a limb and say that a divemaster/instructor in Hawaii (like Halemano, for example) probably does not see a representative sampling of serious photographers, since Hawaii is not what I'd consider a top dive destination from a photographer's point of view. At the same time, let me concede that some of the pictures Halemano has taken with whatever POS point-and-shoot he is using are better than any I have taken with my housed DSLR with two strobes.

Firstly, thanks, and I am on that limb with you, always maintaining that Hawaii is not even a dive destination, much less a dive photography destination. Hawaii is one of the most popular destinations in the World, and diving is just one of the many reasons, not the reason.

In this small but popular sub forum, I feel "dual strobes" and "dSLR's" are like "spring straps" and "BP/W's" in the main forums; among this very, very small web community, proponents of those gears type loud and long, but if one looks at the entire dive world, or dive photography world, they are far from the norm.

Not that it matters, but I started my "serious" underwater photography in '95, by trading my first BC and reg for a flooded Nikonos V w/ stock 35 mm lens. $95 later I shot my avatar and sig line image. I soon inherited dad's Nikonos SB-101, and I am still using the tray from that strobe. A $95 used Nikonos 28 mm was soon added and that system lasted nearly 5 years.

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scanned image, Nikonos V / 28 mm / SB-101[/c]

I chose Ocean Divers for my nearly zero to past hero training because the past hero training included a Resort Photo Pro course with Stephen Frink Photography. In the weeks leading up to that class I bought a used Nikonos RS w/ 20-35 mm zoom, new Nikonos V, new Ikelite SS200 Photo Case, used SS200 Photo Case, used Nikonus 20 mm w/ finder and a full macro kit for the Nikonos V.

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shot with dual strobe rig below[/c]

Upon my return to Hawaii, late '01, the world was going digital, so I internet researched for months to find the best for the least, because I blew my wad in that paragraph above. I would argue that even in the Oly housing, the Oly C5050Z is no POS P&S. Added an Inon WAL and Ikelite Slave sensor and that rig lasted me nearly 10 years.

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I have dabbled with cheap dual strobe shooting, but I'm addicted to the Ike 200's.

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My new rig, listed in my sig line, looks very much like the rig two pic's up, and even "trading in" the orange Ike pieces for new gray Ike pieces I've dropped over $3,000 this year. Again, not what I consider a POS P&S.

Now that Jak Crow has identified his rig, we have more information to stay on topic with, and above are a few pic's of strobe positioning

Finally, my "trade in" with Ikelite included getting a DS160 w/ EV as well, but I doubt I will ever double strobe the new rig.

 

[vladimir]

My "POS point-and-shoot" comment was somewhat in jest. There are a few photographers on ScubaBoard posting amazing shots using them. When I bought my DSLR, Subal housing and strobes I thought it was the optimal rig. (Of course I could have gotten a more expensive camera, but that is the area of the most rapidly diminishing return on the extra dollar, in my opinion.) Since then, though, P&S's have eliminated shutter-lag (which would have driven me crazy) and the gap has narrowed quite a bit. Factor in the bulk of the housed DSLR and the gap narrows some more. I still think that any rig with one strobe is sub-optimal, but you could argue that any rig the size of a golden retriever is also sub-optimal.

My progression in underwater photography started with a NikonosV and a lot of wasted film, to a housed SLR and more wasted film, so it was natural to house a DSLR when they (and their housings) became available. We--the serious photographers--are not as dogmatic as the BP/W crowd--it's just that we've spent so much money we have to remind people at every opportunity.

Based on what I see posted on ScubaBoard, I guess that the single best predictor of picture quality is the amount of time spent underwater, with gear well down the list.

 

[bvanant]

To keep this going because it is fun. My take is that all DSLR have made their way into photographers hands and that the total number of DSLR cameras made so far is about 54 million (12 million last year alone). If 2 % of those got into UW photographers hands, that is about 1 million or so. To me that is many. If it is only 1% then it is half a million and that still is many. Many is one of those interesting words that has no relationship to percent (unlike most say) and is perfectly context driven. If I do an experiment with 40 rats I would say that many of them had a particular outcome if it was 25 or so. In any case my estimate of total number of underwater housings for digital cameras is several million with DSLR maybe 15 % of the total, still to me many, but maybe not to everyone.
Bill

 

[bvanant]

If you don't have it get a copy of Martin Edge's fourth edition of underwater photography. Great book and worth the investment of time to go through it, He has lots of pictures of strobe positions for both one and two strobes.
Bill