Best alternate air configuration

[MonkSeal]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
Proven? By whom?

I didn't say it's best for any diver (I wrote recreational !) and I didn't say I do that way. It's most common and it's best known (IMHO) to recreational divers which rises safety level.

All agencies I know (NAUI, SSI, PADI, CMAS) train divers (at least OW which is majority of recreational divers) that way. Great majority of shops use such gear. Maybe it will be changed (e.g. in DIR direction) but for now that's the way how they teach people.

MonkSeal

 

[MikeFerrara]

annie once bubbled...
Hi

Wouldn't air leak out of the yellow ball if the reg was free flowing? it's only a small air space.
I don't know how to do the necklace thing, unless I get trained in DIR (isn't that a DIR thing?)

Annie

No it isn't a DIR thing although DIR does uses it. There isn't much to know to use it. You just hang your alternate on a necklace made out of rubber tube or bungie. It's best to have it on a shorter than normal hose. Mine is 22 or 24 inches long. When you donate air you hand off your primary and switch to the reg around your neck. You always know where it is. It's always out of the way. This arrangement also makes for the simplest procedure which is what we want in an emergency. What could be easier than knowing that the reg your buddy will hand off to you is in the moddle of their face. It gets even easier if the primary is on a longer hose.

 

[reefrat]

I have tried most configurations over the years, with the exception of the 7 foot hose (which sounds workable but unecessary for open water stuff).

I currently have my octupus 2nd stage on a necklace, the 36 inch hose goes under my right arm and up to a 90 deg swivel joint. This arrangement sits nicely under my chin.

My primary reg is used as normal and in an OOA situation gets donated .

As you can see all I've done is fit a swivel and a necklace to my occy, seems to work well for the last 50 dives.

A fully redundant pony set up may be on the cards one day as I am getting into digital photography seem to be diving more and more soloish!

 

[Albion]

Ok a few replies. As you probably guessed i like the airII, actually i use an Apex Octo+ which has been used for 6 years without any major problem, my GF has an Aqualung version also without any problem. the only minor fault has been sometimes they seem to get salt crystals trapped and free flow a little until they are fully wet again, but i have seen this on primaries as well.

Mike F comment that they are cheap junk seems to be negated by this, mine works fine.

Deflating as you ascend?, i delfate then ascend, at the top of post i said this was relavent to recreational diving with singles. So i deflate then with AIRII in MY mouth go up with buddy breathing off my primary (correct use, not buddy using AIRII that would be near impossible).

I am not anti long hose it just seems uneccesary for recreational diving, and in my region i am now seeing lots of divers using this principal, i think more due to the fact it looks cool.

I have not yet experienced a diver coming to me low on air in an actual situation, but can imagine that in worst case scenario a panicked diver is just going to snatch your primary without asking, what happens with a long hose round your neck?

I think that reefrat offered the best compromise, in a slighlty longer hose routed under your arm with a swivel on the primary.
This could be used euiether with backup on a necklace or airII and i may change my primary to this arrangement now.

I can see benefits to both the necklace and AirII systems, but think that the 'convential' setup is severely lacking in other than the initial trianing scenario, where novice divers can easily learn to pass regs between each other. But once that stage is passed the spare reg either gets stuck in a pocket or left to dangle and basically forgotton about, leading to poor dive practices.

 

[neil]

MonkSeal once bubbled...

All agencies I know (NAUI, SSI, PADI, CMAS) train divers (at least OW which is majority of recreational divers) that way. .
MonkSeal

Actually, neither NAUI nor PADI specifically describe the configuration of the alternate air source required by standards. Long hose, short hose, pony bottle, integrated regulator and doubles with 2 regs meet the standard.

Neil

 

[Diver0001]

Albion once bubbled...
<snip>

I am not anti long hose it just seems uneccesary for recreational diving, and in my region i am now seeing lots of divers using this principal, i think more due to the fact it looks cool.

Does it look cool? That certainly wasn't my motivation to use it. I'd be mortified if someone thought I was only trying to be cool. I'll go along with you on the point that the long hose is associated with DIR and for better or worse DIR is trendy. But despite being DIR it's still a good idea.

I have not yet experienced a diver coming to me low on air in an actual situation, but can imagine that in worst case scenario a panicked diver is just going to snatch your primary without asking, what happens with a long hose round your neck?

Actually I think that "snatching the primary" is probably the norm. In any case it's somthing you need to be prepared for.... That's why I think that being 100% sure of where your octopus is should be a major concern. To answer your question, what happens with the hose is that it just slips over your head. You might need to nod your head forward or give the hose a flick with your hand but it comes loose easily. If somone were to reach around your head from behind and from the left (a highly unlikely situation) and grab your reg and pull then you could find the hose doesn't come loose. In that case a 1/2 turn in the direction of the reaching diver and a nod of your head and the hose will come off. This potential danger gets really overblown on the internet. The logic people apply behind their keyboards sometimes doesn't work like that under water.

I think that reefrat offered the best compromise, in a slighlty longer hose routed under your arm with a swivel on the primary.
This could be used euiether with backup on a necklace or airII and i may change my primary to this arrangement now.

This is the routing that the "off the shelf" Sherwood Maximus uses. I've used this routing too. It's an improvement over the standard setup but falls short of the long hose. Another advantage to the long hose is that you can swim side by side or even in single file without problems. Where I live we sometimes dive where there is a lot of shipping traffic and it's a major advantage to be able to swim to shallow water before ascending if you need to abort. If you're confident that you can abort straight to the surface without a swim on every dive you make then the "Maximus" routing (for lack of a better term) is sufficient, IMO.

I can see benefits to both the necklace and AirII systems, but think that the 'convential' setup is severely lacking in other than the initial trianing scenario, where novice divers can easily learn to pass regs between each other. But once that stage is passed the spare reg either gets stuck in a pocket or left to dangle and basically forgotton about, leading to poor dive practices.

True but using another way doesn't guarantee dicipline either. Any way you look at it safe diving involves more than your configuration.

Cheers,
R..

 

[MikeFerrara]

Albion once bubbled...


Mike F comment that they are cheap junk seems to be negated by this, mine works fine.

How much and under what conditions have you used it?

Deflating as you ascend?, i delfate then ascend, at the top of post i said this was relavent to recreational diving with singles. So i deflate then with AIRII in MY mouth go up with buddy breathing off my primary (correct use, not buddy using AIRII that would be near impossible).

You should be close to neutral at all times including during an ascent. You should ascend and for that matter dive such that depth control doesn't rely on kicking. Kick to move forward, backward or turn, not to change depth.

I have not yet experienced a diver coming to me low on air in an actual situation, but can imagine that in worst case scenario a panicked diver is just going to snatch your primary without asking, what happens with a long hose round your neck?

Which is why it's nice to have a REAL reg just under your chin. This is just exactly what the long hose is designed for. When that stressed diver grabs the reg out of your mouth and it's on a short hose the first problem is being able to maintain control while tied together on a short leash and in awkward positions that result from it. With a long hose both divers actually have room to dive.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


You should be close to neutral at all times including during an ascent. You should ascend and for that matter dive such that depth control doesn't rely on kicking. Kick to move forward, backward or turn, not to change depth.

Mike, dont these too statements contradict eachother? Are you saying that you teach your students to ascend using their BC as an elevator? You stated first that you should be neutral at all times, then you say that you shouldnt be kicking to change depth. I am confused, please explain...

 

[nickjb]

I'm sure Mike will speak for himself soon enough but he did say 'nearly neutral'. I try to aim for slightly negative to sink, slightly positive to rise. We are talking about very small amounts here, not dumping all your air and dropping like a stone or doing a polaris to the surface.

EDIT: forgot to add, very small adjustments are done by controlling your lungs.

 

[Aquamaniac]

Mikes statement sounded like a perfect comment to me!