BCD/Harness or other options

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Loeth

Registered
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Location
Denmark
# of dives
1000 - 2499
Hallo all
I have been diving over the last years with a BCD and have never had any loud complains worth mentioning but its worn out and its time to find something new. Im not looking for anything specific so i open for inputs.
I like the tech way, less it more, and streamlined, but have never dived with Hogarthian Harness systems so have no idea what to get or how it feels. But i also like the comfort of a standard BCD but kinda hate the christmas tree feeling with all the straps, D-rings and other stuff hanging around. and would like to use it for both single tank and twin set with the possibility of a bailout/reserve. I live in denmark and dive there, but will work in places like malta eg. so need to be able for all around use.
have been looking and only liked (so far):
- Dive Rite Transpac
- ATS Slim 18 MC System (Danish) (3mm steel backplate)(adjustable harness) (18liter wing)
(ATS Slim 18 MC system - Nortech Diving ApS)

Im hoping some of you can come with some good options
-Thanks
 
Between the two, it's ATS all the way, Transpac is a bunch of non sense.

On the ATS, fixed harness seems like the obvious choice, adjustable looks like it means buckles and bunch of non sense, you want it just like in the pic of the link you provided.
It's the first time I hear about options in the thickness of the plate, I'm used to only have either steel or aluminum, same thickness, steel is considerably heavier than the aluminum version, twice the thickness we can expect twice the weight I guess, so, 12 Lb plate, sounds heavy to me, YMMV.
 
I like the tech way, less it more, and streamlined, but have never dived with Hogarthian Harness systems so have no idea what to get or how it feels. . . . have been looking and only liked (so far):
- Dive Rite Transpac
- ATS Slim 18 MC System (Danish) (3mm steel backplate)(adjustable harness) (18liter wing)
(ATS Slim 18 MC system - Nortech Diving ApS)
The optimal selection depends in part on the temperatures of the water you will be diving, and your inherent buoyancy characteristics, neither of which I am familiar with - I presume colder waters in Denmark but have no personal familiarity with Malta. Were I in your situation, I would opt for the 6lb steel backplate. But that reflects my inherent buoyancy - diving in salt water, with a 1mm suit and an AL cylinder, I can wear a 6lb steel BP and still add a couple of pounds. So I am not over-weighted with that configuration, you (and others) may be.

As for the harness, generally you will see two types of backplate harnesses on the market. The first, often called a 'deluxe' harness or something along those lines, will usually have quick releases in the shoulders, and may even have straps on the shoulders that can be used to loosen / tighten the rig. I would recommend against those. The second, a single piece web harness, adjusted to fit YOU, works well, and is comfortable and functional. I have both, and prefer the single piece harness by far.

As just a final observation - it is also probably useful to dismiss extreme / absurd statements from your consideration as well. For example:
Pavao:
Between the two, it's ATS all the way, Transpac is a bunch of non sense.
I agree with the choice of the ATS, as previously described. But, the second part of the statement is the actual nonsense, not the Transpac. The Transpac is simply a 'soft' backplate. It has a variety of uses. In your situation I would not choose it. However, if you said you wanted to dive double steel cylinders in warm water with a thin wetsuit, it would be a viable option. But, to cavalierly dismiss it as 'nonsense' is, . . . nonsense.

As for the harness. I personally prefer a simple, single piece of webbing as my harness.
 
As just a final observation - it is also probably useful to dismiss extreme / absurd statements from your consideration as well. For example:I agree with the choice of the ATS, as previously described. But, the second part of the statement is the actual nonsense, not the Transpac. The Transpac is simply a 'soft' backplate. It has a variety of uses. In your situation I would not choose it. However, if you said you wanted to dive double steel cylinders in warm water with a thin wetsuit, it would be a viable option. But, to cavalierly dismiss it as 'nonsense' is, . . . nonsense.

As for the harness. I personally prefer a simple, single piece of webbing as my harness.

Well, excuse me Mr know-it-all-only-my-opinion-counts. Can we say pretentious???? LOL

Maybe I'm unfamiliar with what Dive Rite Transpac is, so a Google search comes up with this 2169.jpg, and what I see here is a bunch of nonsense. When something isn't needed, it serves no purpose, if it serves no purpose, it makes no sense having it, in short: nonsense.

Can you tell us the need for a chest strap?
Can you tell us the need for double D-rings on shoulder straps?
Can you tell us the advantage of having the harness dived into multiple pieces?
Can you tell us what happens when it comes time to replace the harness?
Can you tell us the advantage of buckles in the crotch strap?
Can you tell us the need for a soft "backplate"? (hint, the fact they sell/recommend stability plates is a huge clue)

Check out this funny piece of description of the Transpac from Dive Rite's website:
"Two-inch (50 mm) nylon webbing rated at 7,000 pounds breaking strength forms the shoulder and waist straps."
LOL, yeah, except that they cut that 7,000 pounds strength and add a plastic quick release buckle in the middle of it.
 
I think it's worth taking a look again at what the OP said, let me highlight some key points in case it was missed:

Hallo all
I have been diving over the last years with a BCD and have never had any loud complains worth mentioning but its worn out and its time to find something new. Im not looking for anything specific so i open for inputs.
I like the tech way, less it more, and streamlined, but have never dived with Hogarthian Harness systems so have no idea what to get or how it feels. But i also like the comfort of a standard BCD but kinda hate the christmas tree feeling with all the straps, D-rings and other stuff hanging around. and would like to use it for both single tank and twin set with the possibility of a bailout/reserve. I live in denmark and dive there, but will work in places like malta eg. so need to be able for all around use.
have been looking and only liked (so far):
- Dive Rite Transpac
- ATS Slim 18 MC System (Danish) (3mm steel backplate)(adjustable harness) (18liter wing)
(ATS Slim 18 MC system - Nortech Diving ApS)

Im hoping some of you can come with some good options
-Thanks
 
Well, excuse me Mr know-it-all-only-my-opinion-counts. Can we say pretentious????
Well, yes, you can, if you want to offer a self-description. You apparently have no first hand knowledge of the unit to which you are referring yet you are seemingly comfortable making absurd assertions. I thought about how to respond to this. The mature, intelligent, professional approach would be to say, 'Thank you for you observations.' and then attempt to address them. But, I don't feel that your comments are informed enough to merit that response.
'Maybe I'm unfamiliar with what Dive Rite Transpac is, so a Google search comes up with this, and what I see here is a bunch of nonsense.
So, this is the best you can do - a Google search and a website photo? While I, of course, would never suggest that such an approach is 'pretty lame', I somehow suspect that others might. And, while I have not personally experienced such a situation, I have a friend who likes to say. 'I have often seen ignorance encounter something it doesn't understand, and label it nonsense because of an inability to actually understand.' I have to wonder - would a reasonable person ask, 'Does that apply here?'
Can you tell us the need for a chest strap?
Plenty of divers like a chest strap. If you don't, that's fine. I don't use one for single cylinder diving either. But a chest strap doesn't qualify as nonsense. If you decide to use a Transpac as the basis for a sidemount rig, for instance, a chest strap is a pretty useful feature. What is your experience doing that?
Can you tell us the need for double D-rings on shoulder straps?
None that I know off. They come off easily. And, you don't have to buy them to begin with.
Can you tell us the advantage of having the harness dived into multiple pieces?
Some divers prefer a 'deluxe' harness. I have already said I don't. However, I do find a quick release on the left shoulder strap very convenient for diving double cylinders, with a drysuit. It makes getting out of the gear much easier. What is your experience?
Can you tell us what happens when it comes time to replace the harness?
Uh, buy more webbing? This must be one of those trick questions, since it makes no sense. Oh, wait, that must be nonsense. What is the point? Replacing a one piece harness is easier. Replacing a 'deluxe' harness is actually still easy. Have you ever done that? I have. I will even admit that I do not care for the fact that the webbing is sewn into the top of the Transpac, instead of feeding through slots, as on a hard backplate, or many of the other 'soft' backplates. But, that is not nonsense. it is just a feature that is possibly less convenient than it might otherwise be.
Can you tell us the advantage of buckles in the crotch strap?
Nope. Don't know of any rigs that have 'buckles in the crotch strap'. What are you talking about? I hope you are not referring to the D-ring in the crotch strap. If you are referring to a quick release in the crotch strap, I can offer several advantages.
Can you tell us the need for a soft "backplate"?
Sure. It is not as negatively buoyant as the currently available 'hard' backplates, either AL of steel. It is much lighter for travel. By the way, you may not be up to speed on current trends in diving technology. But, A LOT of manufacturers are coming out with 'soft' backplates - Zeagle, Apeks, Oxycheq, etc. They are often labelled as lightweight travel plates. Do you have any experience with them?
(hint, the fact they sell/recommend stability plates is a huge clue)
As you said, 'Maybe I'm unfamiliar with what Dive Rite Transpac.' And, I don't think the 'maybe' is needed. A huge clue to WHAT? The stability plates refer specifically to the use of a Transpac with double cylinders. They actually work quite well. But, I didn't have the sense that the OP was concerned at present with doubles. Since you are unfamiliar with the Transpac, let me enlighten you. I have actually dove one. No that's not enough. I even own several - including the Transpac that forms the basis of my Nomad. I don't think a Transpac is an ideal solution for the OP. But, where we differ, I actually have first hand knowledge of what I am referring to, and can hazard an informed judgement, where you are apparently relying on website photos.
Pavao:
Check out this funny piece of description of the Transpac from Dive Rite's website: "Two-inch (50 mm) nylon webbing rated at 7,000 pounds breaking strength forms the shoulder and waist straps." LOL, yeah, except that they cut that 7,000 pounds strength and add a plastic quick release buckle in the middle of it.
A completely irrelevant posting. Who cares what is on the website? I must ask - what is the breaking strength of the quick release? Do you actually know? If you actually knew anything about the Transpac, God forbid if you had actually dove one, you wouldn't need to look on the website, would you? So, while I have already said that i don't think the Transpac is optimal for this person, I will also say - since I apparently suffer from only having first hand knowledge of the Transpac, while you have the greater benefit of website photos, that it is not nonsense. It is merely not an optimal selection.
 
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The way I see it is that there is 4 different types of harnesses: 1) Hogarthian - a single 1 piece harness, 2) Deluxe - webbing with rings, 3) "Transplate Style" - webbing with rings and padding and quick releases. Note: other vendors besides Dive Rite sells these. 4) Soft-Harness - Transpac and the like.

I used to recommend getting a deluxe harness when they were the same price as a Hogarthian harness because if you didn't like it you could always just buy new webbing for $10 and reuse the hardware. Now that they are more expensive I would recommend the Hog harness. I would also recommend you dive or get feedback with someone experienced with it so you get set up properly .

I do have a Hollis version of the transplate and don't really like it. It feels overly busy and complicated but it is comfortable and I would not consider it dangerous or a hazzard. I have never used a soft harness but some people swear by them and they were around before BP/W came into vogue.
 
I started with TransPac as my first BP/W setup, Dove it for almost three years. Started as a single tank setup and found it beneficial to make easy adjustments as I was diving both cold waters in a drysuit and warm waters in 3 mil. Very comfortable and easy to adjust when one day teaching in a pool in a wetsuit and next day diving dry in cold waters of Great Lakes.

Chest strap is handy for this kind of harness as with connecting ring on side straps they would not hold well without the chest strap unlike the continuous webbing. I also used it with doubles (this is where stabilizers come into play) and it worked extremely well. I was happy to use the soft plate as I used pretty heavy doubles and didn't need any additional weight. I did my cavern and intro to cave in this setup. By the way, no real use for two sets of D rings on the shoulders, that would be the only part i didn't find any use for. As for the crotch strap, there is a choice of at least 3 kinds from Dive Rite, I purchased one without QR but it was my choice.

After couple of years I had an opportunity to get a hard plate and I've built my first Hogarthian setup using a steel plate. I built it for single tank using a steel plate and adjusted it for cold water single tank diving. I found that steel plate with heavy doubles made me too head heavy so I kept diving TransPac with those. After a while I changed my tanks to a lighter version, built another rig using aluminum plate and kept TransPac as a travel set.

As my son decided to take diving more seriously he needed a BP/W setup so now he dives the TransPac (happy as a clam) and I have 3 hard plate rigs just for fun. I have to admit that I like the simplicity of Hogarthian setup but boy I do miss the convenience of TransPac any time I have to get in and out wearing my drysuit with those dry glove rings.

Bottom line, both setups work well for my kind of diving - wrecks, caves and warm water reefs. You have to decide between more convenience with TransPac versus clean Hogarthian setup. If I would have to choose only one setup and need to often change it adjusting to different dive conditions, I would go again with the TransPac, if you are willing to constantly make adjustments or have more than one rig, Hogarthian will work well.

Dive safe






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Well, yes, you can, if you want to offer a self-description. You apparently have no first hand knowledge of the unit to which you are referring yet you are seemingly comfortable making absurd assertions. I thought about how to respond to this. The mature, intelligent, professional approach would be to say, 'Thank you for you observations.' and then attempt to address them.
You need maturity to make mature comments, the fact you even attempted to justify the nonsense in the Transpac is enough clue into the intelligent department comment. And professional is a word used very loosely by you, your arrogant, pretentious comments on the first post already told us that. Learn to make informed comments to sustain your arguments instead of attempting insults, kid!

But, I don't feel that your comments are informed enough to merit that response.
Or simply, you just don't know how.

So, this is the best you can do - a Google search and a website photo? While I, of course, would never suggest that such an approach is 'pretty lame', I somehow suspect that others might. And, while I have not personally experienced such a situation, I have a friend who likes to say. 'I have often seen ignorance encounter something it doesn't understand, and label it nonsense because of an inability to actually understand.' I have to wonder - would a reasonable person ask, 'Does that apply here?' Apparently it does!
Your friend is a wise man, you should listen to what he has to say.
Interesting enough, what I see here is an apparent lack of understanding on how an ATS (hogarthian) system works and it's functionality, this is made very clear once you attempt to explain/justify/reason (whatever you wanna call it) the choices on the Transpac.
Here's a fun exercise, put both rigs side by side, now look at the things present on the Transpac that are not present on the ATS and ask yourself, do I need them on the ATS to make it work? Well, if none of that is needed, then why have it?
I have seen a lot of divers new to such style rig, divers used to traditional BCD, concerned about the lack of a chest strap for example, they fear the shoulder strap will slide over their shoulder and make them lose the gear underwater I guess, well, they fear because there's a "key" component of the gear missing, at least to their (and apparently your) understanding.


Plenty of divers like a chest strap. If you don't, that's fine. I don't use one for single cylinder diving either. But a chest strap doesn't qualify as nonsense.
I asked you to tell us the NEED for a chest strap, plenty of divers like a chest strap was your answer???? Was that the best you could give us champ? I'm very disappointed, for someone with such a profound knowledge of the gear, I would expect a lot more.

If you decide to use a Transpac as the basis for a sidemount rig, for instance, a chest strap is a pretty useful feature. What is your experience doing that?
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
Btw, the sidemount thread is that way. Oh wait, was that a desperate attempt at finding a reason for the, uh, nonsense chest strap for backmount singles or doubles?


None that I know off. They come off easily. And, you don't have to buy them to begin with.
Yep, I know, like I said, nonsense.

Some divers prefer a 'deluxe' harness. I have already said I don't. Again, some divers prefer is your answer, boy, those are lacking a lot of "understanding" you keep claiming to have

However, I do find a quick release on the left shoulder strap very convenient for diving double cylinders, with a drysuit. It makes getting out of the gear much easier. Make up your mind, earlier you said : "I have both, and prefer the single piece harness by far".
What is your experience?
Judged by what I read so far from you in this thread, it is vastly greater than yours, specially in the gear functionality department.

Uh, buy more webbing? This must be one of those trick questions, since it makes no sense. Oh, wait, that must be nonsense. What is the point? Replacing a one piece harness is easier. Replacing a 'deluxe' harness is actually still easy. Have you ever done that? I have. I will even admit that I do not care for the fact that the webbing is sewn into the top of the Transpac, instead of feeding through slots, as on a hard backplate, or many of the other 'soft' backplates. But, that is not nonsense. it is just a feature that is possibly less convenient than it might otherwise be.
LMAO! Dude, you're brave, I gotta give you that. What a load of BS.

Nope. Don't know of any rigs that have 'buckles in the crotch strap'. What are you talking about? I hope you are not referring to the D-ring in the crotch strap. If you are referring to a quick release in the crotch strap,
LOL, it's called a quick release BUCKLE, genius.

I can offer several advantages.
Sure you can, I bet they are: "some divers prefer"

Sure. It is not as negatively buoyant as the currently available 'hard' backplates, either AL of steel. It is much lighter for travel.
But that does not justify need for being soft, you missed the key point of the question, I'll repeat, can you tell us the need for a soft "backplate"?
By the way, you may not be up to speed on current trends in diving technology. But, A LOT of manufacturers are coming out with 'soft' backplates - Zeagle, Apeks, Oxycheq, etc. They are often labelled as lightweight travel plates. Do you have any experience with them?
So is that what the transpac is, a travel bc? Wow, it does it all eh? Single tank, doubles, sidemount and also travel.
You clearly are not up to speed on current trends in the dive industry BS, but A LOT of manufacturers pray on ill informed keyboard divers such as yourself, they are good at coming out with the latest gear/gadget inventions to "solve" a poor/lack of skill, and thanks to people like yourself, they continue to thrive!


As you said, 'Maybe I'm unfamiliar with what Dive Rite Transpac.' And, I don't think the 'maybe' is needed. A huge clue to WHAT? The stability plates refer specifically to the use of a Transpac with double cylinders. They actually work quite well. But, I didn't have the sense that the OP was concerned at present with doubles. Since you are unfamiliar with the Transpac, let me enlighten you. I have actually dove one. No that's not enough. I even own several - including the Transpac that forms the basis of my Nomad. I don't think a Transpac is an ideal solution for the OP. But, where we differ, I actually have first hand knowledge of what I am referring to, and can hazard an informed judgement, where you are apparently relying on website photos.
Again, unfamiliarity with the simple word "maybe" leads to this, oh well, it's not the worse statements you've made today.
But in any case, stability plates is sold to address a problem created by the design in the first place, the nonsense soft "backplate" is unstable, but guess what genius? They sell an uh, stability plate, what a brilliant idea!!!

Btw, when you acquire a certain understanding of some gear functionality, a simple photo, yes, can be enough to filter the BS of what works and what doesn't, in this case in particular, there's nothing on that system that we haven't seen all over the place, specially in conventional BCD's seen in virtually any dive shop, yet again your comments point to your obvious lack of understanding about the hogarthian gear configuration, I promise you, once you understand it, you won't need to dive every rig out there to know if it is optimum or not, a simple photo could suffice.

A completely irrelevant posting. Who cares what is on the website? I must ask - what is the breaking strength of the quick release buckle (fixed it for you)? Do you actually know? No, I don't. But you're the knowledgeable one on it, so, go ahead, link a reference to that info please. Though the breaking strength of the buckle is not the only possible failure added by it, I'd still be curious to know. If you actually knew anything about the Transpac, God forbid if you had actually dove one, you wouldn't need to look on the website, would you? A picture is worth a thousand words. So, while I have already said that i don't think the Transpac is optimal for this person, I will also say - since I apparently suffer from only having first hand knowledge of the Transpac, while you have the greater benefit of website photos, that it is not nonsense. It is merely not an optimal selection.
Irrelevant enough for you not to comment on it? Yeah, I didn't think so.

It is merely not an optimal selection.
Well, looks like I now know how to say something is nonsense with sugar coating and a cherry on top.
 
Pavao, have you ever read George Irvine's articles on DIR? DIR is the optimal solution to the type of team diving done by the WKPP. GUE took that and ran with it and wants to make it the standard for everyone. A DIR compliant crotch strap is 2" without a QR. Why? because it is supposed to be used as an attachment point for a scooter. If a person doesn't use a scooter and is more comfortable with a 1" strap with a QR then why not? What are the risks? Recreational BCs don't even have crotch straps.

Historically, most BC's used QR buckles and I am sure that any dive professional will have a story that one failed. However the failures are usually due to abuse (someone dropped a tank on it) or age (the BC was leftover from the Calypso voyages). If QR buckles are inherently unsafe then we would see many more failures than be do now. Also the type of diving that the WKPP diver does requires doubles and stages and puts more stress on a buckle than a single aluminium 80 which is probably used by 90% of the divers out there.

Some people do prefer soft harnesses over hard ones for a variety of reasons. For example Dr. Bill that writes a blog on SB is a very experienced diver that uses and loves the old Scubapro XTek harness. I am sure he knows what a Hog harness is. If you talk to anyone in Cave Country they have the utmost respect for Lamar Hires and Dive Rite. He is not someone that is going to push junk gear on unsuspecting divers.
 

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