Bcd for daughter

[Belzelbub]

4.) Some Zeagles (at least as of a few years ago when I was looking into it) used a rip cord system for securing and releasing integrated weights. Some people valued that; I didn't like the idea of needing to rethread them, but if you think they sound more secure than plastic clips, it's something to think about.

Up until only a few years ago, the Rip-Cord was pretty much the only weight integrated system that Zeagle offered. I believe they offered another in the Express Tech. They also offer another style in their jacket style BCs.

Zeagle does offer a couple BCs designed for women. The Marina (jacket) and the Zena (back-inflate). Marina comes with more traditional/proprietary weight pockets. The Zena uses the Rip-Cord system.

The weight systems are definitely personal preference, but IMO, the con for the Rip-Cord (rethreading process) is overblown. Yes, it does take a bit longer than a snap in pocket, but it’s really not that hard. When I got my Stiletto, I watched a video, pulled the cord and rethreaded. My daughters both dive Zeagles with Rip-Cord, Lazer (discontinued) and Zena. As mentioned, the rethreading is a minor inconvenience.

The Rip-Cord also has some pros over the other systems:
1. The weights can all be released with a single, one-handed action.
2. There are no proprietary pockets. So, in the event the weights need to be released, you can borrow weights and continue diving. Assuming, of course, that the reason for the release has been addressed.

 

[drrich2]

As mentioned, the rethreading is a minor inconvenience.

The Rip-Cord also has some pros over the other systems:
1. The weights can all be released with a single, one-handed action.

Interesting! Some dive operators tell divers to hand up their weights before handing up their BCD rigs, so in some cases I imagine it could get a bit tedious, but I haven't had to deal with that.

I know some people prefer the rip cord system.

What if you want to release some but not all the weight? With a pair of integrated weight pockets, I can ditch one pocket but keep the other. It's not 'all or nothing.' With the rip cord release system, is that also practical?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The problem with the rip cord is that it does release all the weights at one time. It's only a pro in case of an emergency and the diver needs to dump everything on the surface. It has more cons than pros. It's not easy to add and remove increments when it's laced up. If not laced correctly, and I have seen a few that were not, it can release without warning or not release at all as happened in one fatality involving a public safety diver. While user error, there should never be an option where that error is easy to do. It's also bulky.
The zip touch is a much better system because you can dump one at a time. I tell my students once they get above a certain amount of required lead to never rely on putting it in one system. If properly weighted, there should never be a reason short of a catastrophic emergency, to need to dump everything.

 

[Belzelbub]

Interesting! Some dive operators tell divers to hand up their weights before handing up their BCD rigs, so in some cases I imagine it could get a bit tedious, but I haven't had to deal with that.

Zeagle does offer a solution for that. They sell (or at least did) “yellow thingies”. The yellow thingy is a mesh pouch that you insert the weights into. Then, the entire pouch is inserted into the pocket. IIRC, they have a finger loop, so these could be easily removed and handed over.

What if you want to release some but not all the weight? With a pair of integrated weight pockets, I can ditch one pocket but keep the other. It's not 'all or nothing.' With the rip cord release system, is that also practical?

That’s as easy as unzipping the pocket. The weight pocket has a zipper on top.

The weight pocket is inside of another pocket, and the zippers operate in differe directions to avoid confusion. Weight pocket has a red zipper and in closed position is to the back of the BC, so it opens by moving zipper forward. Item pocket is the other way around.

The problem with the rip cord is that it does release all the weights at one time. It's only a pro in case of an emergency and the diver needs to dump everything on the surface. It has more cons than pros. It's not easy to add and remove increments when it's laced up.

Huh? There is a zipper on top. Weights are added to the open top. Seems easier to me than loading a more typical weight pocket. With those, you have to remove the weight pocket, then open up the pocket to add or remove.

I’m positive I can change weights quicker than with removable weight pockets. Prior to getting the Stiletto, I used to use a BC with more typical removable pockets.

If not laced correctly, and I have seen a few that were not, it can release without warning or not release at all as happened in one fatality involving a public safety diver. While user error, there should never be an option where that error is easy to do. It's also bulky.
The zip touch is a much better system because you can dump one at a time. I tell my students once they get above a certain amount of required lead to never rely on putting it in one system. If properly weighted, there should never be a reason short of a catastrophic emergency, to need to dump everything.

And in a catastrophic emergency, I can remove all non-trim weights with one motion. If I just need to remove some, I can either dump the trim weights, or open a zipper, and remove weights as needed.

Yeah, I could see not lacing properly being a problem, but I’m having trouble understanding how. Not doubting that it’s happened, just saying that it’s easy enough to see and verify. Plus, it’s not an everyday thing to need to pull the cord, and if it were to be pulled, it’s pretty obvious.

I also seem to recall several recalls on other types of weight pockets, but I can’t recall the Rip-Cord system being recalled.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

I always get a kick out of the ripcord detractors, as most the complaints about the system are totally invalid. I think it would be safe to say that most of these detractors have never used the system while the others never seen it. As Jim said, “ It's not easy to add and remove increments when it's laced up”. Have you ever seen a ripcord release system? You just unzip the pocket and remove the desired amount of weight. If you will be handing the weights up to a boat crew just use the yellow pouches and hand those up. How often do you need to drop your weights? After 14 years of diving I’ve had to drop my weights in an emergency exactly, zero times. I will drop them a few times a year as practice, but the ripcord system takes less than five minutes to rethread. If you do have to drop your weights in an emergency, rethreading the system shou be the last of your worries. The DUI weight and trim system uses a very similar system and I’ve never heard anyone complain about that.

 

[formernuke]

I only thing I have against the rip cord is for teaching reasons. As far as ditchable weight it is my favorite for regular diving. With that said I don't dive zeagle anymore as I prefer bpw.

 

[Belzelbub]

I always get a kick out of the ripcord detractors, as most the complaints about the system are totally invalid. I think it would be safe to say that most of these detractors have never used the system while the others never seen it. As Jim said, “ It's not easy to add and remove increments when it's laced up”. Have you ever seen a ripcord release system?

My thoughts exactly. I understand initial nervousness about rethreading. I had that myself before I bought mine. I talked with a few that used it, watched a couple online videos, and decided I could handle it. All detractors I’ve talked to IRL were only repeating what they heard. Most likely from a dive shop employee that is trying to sell something else. None had actually used it.

Then, I bought a Stiletto. First thing I did when I got it home was pull the cord and rethread it. I found it to be easy and intuitive. Two cords, one long, one short. Short one is obviously for the weight pocket closest to the release. Fabric loops thread through several grommets. Takes a few minutes.

And, adding and removing is easier than any other system I’ve seen. I volunteer at an aquarium locally. The BCs they have us use are all Stilettos. I was already familiar, but they do brief others on the use. It works great for a bunch of different divers with varying weight requirements. Though, I would imagine there might be some puzzling looks if some of the divers needed to rethread the system, every single one of them has figured out how to add and remove weights when it’s laced up.

I only thing I have against the rip cord is for teaching reasons. As far as ditchable weight it is my favorite for regular diving.

This is true. It could be a pain when practicing ditching weights during a lesson. My daughters were both certified in their Zeagles (Lazer and Zena). The instructors made sure they knew how to pull the cord, but in the interest of time used the zipper to simulate the actual ditching.

 

[Jake 10]

I am looking to get my adult daughter a bcd for Christmas this year, are there any brands that should be avoided?

I have two boys. There is a difference between a male and female BCD as you may know. The boys went through this same scenario few years back. Their approach was to rent and test various BCD's every time they dive. They rented Sherwood AVID; Mares Prestige, Bolt, and Prime; Scuapro Level, Hawk, Glide, Hydro; Genesis Origin, Odyssey; Aqualung Rouge, HD Pro, AXIOM.

Short story: one went with Aqualung Axion, the other went with Mares Prestige SLS. Each son has their reason (price, comfort, quality) in their decision. I would have suggested TUSA, Sherwood AVID, or ScubaPro, (in no particular order) but they are anatomically different from each other.

Try and see if your daughter can have access to some local shops and try some BCD's from different brands until she finds one that really fits comfortable. Keep in mind the weights, if she wants weights integrated into BCD, prefers belt or rip cords, etc., etc.

 

[reeftosee]

There has and still is a hype about wing style BCD's and backplates. I know a fair number of recreational divers who only use wings and backplates because it looks cooler, like it's made for technical diving.
Personally, I prefer the classic ADV Jacket style BCD for normal recreational diving, specially when teaching or taking photos. For technical diving that involves a lot of gear it's a bit different.
The main idea behind wing style BCD's is to provide you with lots of buoyancy, which is necessary when doing mixed gas dives or deep cave penetration dives that involve multiple cylinders. The other benefit of a wing type BCD is your (trim) position in the water. Due to the design of the BCD, your upper body will always tend to go in a horizontal position. However, this is not always a good thing. Examples are when you spend a fair amount of time at the surface or when you take photos and you try to shoot upwards. Of course, when teaching students, this is also not always the ideal position. With a classic ADV Jacket style BCD you can be in any position - horizontal, vertical, upside down,... You need to ask yourself what kind of dives you are planning to do. If you can try different designs this would be best to help you make the decision. If you want to take your BCD on holiday, do not get a heavy backplate!

In regards to brands, as Jim Larpenter said - all major equipment manufacturers make decent gear, other wise you wouldn't be in the market. However, there are definitely differences in quality between different manufacturers. And note that the price does not necessarily mean much about the quality. Most "rental series" BCD's for example are very heavy duty and robust as they are designed to be used everyday. They are also in the lower price range of every manufacturer.

When it comes down to weight integrated or not - nowadays it is actually difficult to find a classicJacket style BCD that is not weight integrated. It's not my preference but as drrich2 says, you don't have to use it. Just make sure it's a decent clip-in mechanism that is failsafe. I have seen many hundreds of weight pockets sliding out over the years, either because the clip-in mechanisms were not fully engaged (diver error), or the mechanism failed (typical with velcro systems when they get older).

 

[Marie13]

Wing jacket? Where did that come from?