BC/Wing Plate vs. Jacket-style BCD

[Rick Murchison]

Case in point, can you use a jacket BC in a dry suit? Maybe but I'm not sure it makes sense

Odd perception that... jackets & drysuits work just fine together. Can't imagine why they wouldn't. (Well, I guess a tropical jacket might be a bit strange, but a "regular" jacket works just fine, thank you)
Rick

 

[grouchyturtle]

The BP definitely has countless advantages, but the idea that it gives the user good buoyancy and the ability to hover is, IMO a big myth. Its your skills that enable you to do those things.

It is your skills that allow you to hover and control buoyancy.

But by being horizontal in the water, as you are in a BP there is more up/down resitance in the water column, which does make it easier to maintain your depth at least to some degree. I only had about 30 dives when I switched and noticed a huge difference even from dive one.

 

[grouchyturtle]

Yes they are simple BC's but adjustments are a lot more complicated (but with the reward of much better fit). Also donning and doffing in the water takes a little practice, which is necessary because of the type of boats we use here, where you have to remove the rig befor climbing aboard. Not impossible for new divers to learn, but definitely takes extra effort from both the student and instructor.

I believe that under certain limited conditions (shallow, good vis, easy warm water reef dives less than an hour) a bp/wing would have minimal, if any advantages, over an inexpensive but well fitting jacket bc.

Yeah, but once they are adjusted, there really isn't any reason to readjust anything. I have an AL BP that I use for my 3mm and a SS plate from my drysuit.

One advantage would be that they are much easier to travel with to get to that warm water, also usually no need to pack a weight belt or need for any weights at all when diving that warm water. Had no problems getting out of my rig to get on the boat in Saba (although I will admit it is much harder when wearing a drysuit).

 

[Matthew]

It is your skills that allow you to hover and control buoyancy.

But by being horizontal in the water, as you are in a BP there is more up/down resitance in the water column, which does make it easier to maintain your depth at least to some degree. I only had about 30 dives when I switched and noticed a huge difference even from dive one.

As to being horizontal, its no guarantee. Adjustments still have to be made (tank and weight placement, type of BP) to achieve good trim, just like with a jacket although many say its easier to achieve on a bp/wing.

With a jacket though, I experience a slight but noticeable change in trim in relation to lung volume, but I consider it negligible for the easy dives I describe.

 

[Matthew]

Yeah, but once they are adjusted, there really isn't any reason to readjust anything. I have an AL BP that I use for my 3mm and a SS plate from my drysuit.

One advantage would be that they are much easier to travel with to get to that warm water, also usually no need to pack a weight belt or need for any weights at all when diving that warm water. Had no problems getting out of my rig to get on the boat in Saba (although I will admit it is much harder when wearing a drysuit).

All true. I was just replying to jonnythan's comments about "off-the-shelf" use of a bp/wing. IMO the "unthinking diver" will be more prone to trouble, at least in the first few dives, with a bp/wing than a simple jacket bc.:05:

 

[jonnythan]

All true. I was just replying to jonnythan's comments about "off-the-shelf" use of a bp/wing. IMO the "unthinking diver" will be more prone to trouble, at least in the first few dives, with a bp/wing than a simple jacket bc.:05:

No more than a diver who trained and dived exclusively in a bp/wing would have the first time they tried to use a jacket BC, I bet.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No more than a diver who trained and dived exclusively in a bp/wing would have the first time they tried to use a jacket BC, I bet.

There's some validity to that assumption ... and it applies to any piece of gear that affects buoyancy and trim.

For example, I only do warm-water dives once or twice a year ... the rest of the time I spend in a drysuit. Now, one would think that drysuit diving is harder than diving in a skimpy little 3-mil and barely any offsetting weight ... but to be honest, I can control my buoyancy with far more precision in the cold-water gear ... because it's what I'm used to using.

For the most part, people will always be partial to what they've grown accustomed to using ... that's why "comparisons" of the nature we see in these forums are often skewed in favor of the familiar ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ndavy]

I need some advice along the lines of this subject. I am pretty new to diving and am now looking to buy some gear. I also am a college student so I have a very limited diving budget but still want good gear. Also I am interested in pursuing technical diving. (after I get some more experience of course) After reading extensively on the subject and even trying a Dive Rite Transpac that I was fortunate enough to rent (although that was before I was considering buying a b/c so I didn't take careful notes) and numerous jacket style B/Cs I have decided I want to go the back inflate route. My question revolves around a Dive Rite Transpac II vs a more traditional backplate with wing. I have an opportunity to buy a brand new Transpac II rather cheaply (from a local dive shop) and am very interested in it. However I also like the idea of the getting a BP/W. One disadvantage I can think of is that I require very little weight as it is, between 4 and 8 pounds depending on whether I am wearing my hooded vest under my wetsuit and whether I am diving fresh or salt water, so if I had a BP/W and that would leave me with very little and potentially no ditchable weight. Another disadvantage maybe that for now I am an open water diver, a back plate with wing may be a little more technical oriented and spartan than is necessary for the diving I am likely to do in the next year or two.
At anyrate I would like ya'll to give me some input, should I get a Dive Rite Transpac II or a traditional Backplate with wing for a bit more money and what are the advantages and disadvantages as ya'll see them for each?

 

[Puffer Fish]

See, the problem with this mode of thinking is the automatic assumption that bp/wings are "high tech," or "have lots of features," are "high end," or something along those lines.

BP/wings are very simple BC's that have a very limited number of features compared to even the most basic jacket BC. They're a little more expensive than a basic jacket BC because there are relatively few of them produced. However, IMO, and in the opinion of many others, they are simply a better choice for even the most basic recreational diver... not because it's more high tech or high end, but because it simply works better.

There are no special "balance" issues to "work out" with a bp/wing that aren't present with a jacket BC. There are no "technical skills" required that are not required with a jacket BC. An unthinking diver can toss on a bp/wing right off the shelf and go diving just as easily and simply as with a jacket BC, the only difference being they used a jacket BC in class so it might take a minute for them to get it.

High end refers to cost, not features.

Not that this will make any difference to the "there is only one way" group, but bp/wings predate jacket BC's by a lot of years. Last I checked, people get to vote with their wallets, and they overwhelmingly decided to vote for jacket style systems (including the modified wing/jacket style). I've taught OW classes with bp systems and seen students go right out and buy jacket style vests. I would guess that it was mostly cost, but there has to be more. I personally don't like jackets, so I've never gotten it.

I stopped using them for classes as soon as good jackets were available, because it reduced adjustment time and allowed more time for the really important stuff, like safety.

For the record, the simplest jacket is just that, a jacket with a tank attached and an inflator hose. Put a weight belt on, and you are ready to go. No trim weights, no strap adjustments. Makes a BP look really complex.

There is a place for BP systems and it is already there - along with dry suits, full face masks and several other technical pieces of equipment. Make a nice $200 one and it will be main stream in cost, but still may not be as big a seller as you would think.

You would hope that there is room for more that one point of view.

As a side note, I don't own a jacket BC, and would not buy one for myself.

 

[Puffer Fish]

At anyrate I would like ya'll to give me some input, should I get a Dive Rite Transpac II or a traditional Backplate with wing for a bit more money and what are the advantages and disadvantages as ya'll see them for each?

There is a big weight advantage with the Transpac (lighter), but you loose a selection of back plate material. I like the design and if you can get it for a good price, you could do a lot worse. Remember, if you are going to use different back plates, you also have to spend the money for them. Dive Rite obviously thinks it is where the future is going to be.

I'm sure there are some people here that will insist that having different back plate material is one of the key aspects of this system, and they may be right. I've never changed mine, or seen a reason to.

Lets hope some of the people actually using the Transpac voice how they like it.