BC/Wing Plate vs. Jacket-style BCD

[grouchyturtle]

hmm...maybe if the really taught bouyancy and trim in OW a new diver would understand why they needed a BP.

And I for one really wish someone had smacked me in the head and twisted my arm to buy the BP when I started out. That would have at least been one less piece of gear that I would have wasted $$$ on just to sell a few months later.

 

[Puffer Fish]

hmm...maybe if the really taught bouyancy and trim in OW a new diver would understand why they needed a BP.

And I for one really wish someone had smacked me in the head and twisted my arm to buy the BP when I started out. That would have at least been one less piece of gear that I would have wasted $$$ on just to sell a few months later.

Lets see - living in NJ, wreck diving - what sort of bouyancy equipment should one have?

I would hope that no one smacked you upside the head or twisted your arm into buying a jacket BC either. I would also hope that any instructor would teach to the subject matter of the class and not specific pieces of equipment. Bouyancy control should have been taught (only know for a fact about two cert agencies, so that is a bit of leap of faith there), but not in any great detail. Did you happen to take a wreck diving class?

Diving in your area, if you are going to keep doing it, does make it difficult to transition from "fun" diving into some sort of technical diving, because the fun stuff is somewhat technical. I'm glad I never taught in that sort of an enviroment, because I would have had a class so long that no one would have taken it. It is a bit of shame that you did not have the time to wear your equipment out on simple sport diving and made a smooth transition into wreck diving.

 

[grouchyturtle]

There are plenty of divers in this area who do primarily shore dives, quarries, etc. and they use BPs too.

Not only buoyancy but also weight distribution (for better trim) seems to rarely be taught in OC.

Never took a wreck diving class and never will. BIG waste of money and I wouldn't really learn anything I don't already know. I looked through the PADI manual and it's a BS class. If I start doing more difficult wrecks and penetrations in the future I'll take some cave training.

Even in fun diving as you call it, the BP is a much better rig. I haven't taken DIR or any tech classes yet, but everytime I go away for "fun" diving I have to laugh at most of the people I'm diving with all week. While I'm hovering horizontally above the reef, other divers are running the NYC Marathon accross it, or flappin their arms all over the place, or they're all over the place in general, kicking up silt, etc.

And I'm always the only one in a BP. Part of it is skills, and bad weight distribution, and overweighting, but it's simply easier to control buoyancy with a BP, and even the worst divers I have seen in a BP have always had better trim than those in a jacket.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Buoyancy control should be taught, but weight distribution - not much.

Sure am glad I'm not a PADI guy, or I might take offense at your comment about their wreck course. Had you said that about a NAUI course, well that's a different issue.

Most BP people get one for a reason, to solve an issue, to work better at something. Those people you see flapping their arms would be doing the same with a BP, only they would be on their back or some other silly position. Overweighted, with poor distribution. They also might still be having fun.

It is nice that they are available, but they are still not for everyone.

On one of your fun trips, the person that asks how you can do that is the one that is ready for a BP - all the others are not.

 

[Mandy3206]

Apparently this question is sufficient to make folks testy, and if that is so, then it suggests that there may indeed, BE a problem that cannot be satisfactorily resolved by EVERYONE,

Testy?

Don't ask about bungied wings, that's spicy at least.....................

 

[jonnythan]

jonnythan - your are correct about B/P versus a Ranger, and the cost of a high end BC. But there are some special setup and balance issues one has to understand and take the time to do with a B/P, and not everyone has the interest or the technical skills to do that.

I suspect that most of the BC crowd just add or subtract weight when needed, and some likely just over weight themselves and fill the jacket

I would agree, that if you need all of the features of a Ranger, then you most likely are B/P material. But is everyone in that group? Uncle Ricky had it right when he said there is a place for each.

If you look at the reason for why people buy high end equipment, it comes down to:

1. They actually need the features (really small group - but real)

2. They can afford the most expensive and expensive is better, right?

3. They are technical geeks and just like it for the technical aspects (OK, I can get into that one)

4. Somehow, it makes them feel better, somehow bigger and smarter because they own stuff (ever hear of "limited addition")

I've been guilty of all of the above at one time or another.

Most people would do just fine with a good, well made, good fitting, well taken care of $250 BC. (OK, it has to be on sale for that price).

When someone asks "what should I get", the answer should be what is best for them, not you, not me.

One last, somewhat different point of view - spend 6 years dealing with SCUBA accidents up close and personal. The new guy, with $5,000 worth of equipment is a whole bunch more dangerous (to himself and others) than the someone taking the time to grow in the sport. I would rather have 100 divers on a budget, worrying about their equipment, than 5 divers who think having the best equipment makes them supermen.

See, the problem with this mode of thinking is the automatic assumption that bp/wings are "high tech," or "have lots of features," are "high end," or something along those lines.

BP/wings are very simple BC's that have a very limited number of features compared to even the most basic jacket BC. They're a little more expensive than a basic jacket BC because there are relatively few of them produced. However, IMO, and in the opinion of many others, they are simply a better choice for even the most basic recreational diver... not because it's more high tech or high end, but because it simply works better.

There are no special "balance" issues to "work out" with a bp/wing that aren't present with a jacket BC. There are no "technical skills" required that are not required with a jacket BC. An unthinking diver can toss on a bp/wing right off the shelf and go diving just as easily and simply as with a jacket BC, the only difference being they used a jacket BC in class so it might take a minute for them to get it.

 

[cyklon_300]

that one must somehow be 'ready' to dive with a sheet of metal, a bag, and some webbing continues to be a puzzler...

I guess the novice divers I've introduced to BP/Ws were geniuses, they certainly had no problems grasping the technique for using this 'exotic' equipment, even with only 4-8 logged dives each.

 

[Matthew]

hmm...maybe if the really taught bouyancy and trim in OW a new diver would understand why they needed a BP.

Even in fun diving as you call it, the BP is a much better rig. I haven't taken DIR or any tech classes yet, but everytime I go away for "fun" diving I have to laugh at most of the people I'm diving with all week. While I'm hovering horizontally above the reef, other divers are running the NYC Marathon accross it, or flappin their arms all over the place, or they're all over the place in general, kicking up silt, etc.

The BP definitely has countless advantages, but the idea that it gives the user good buoyancy and the ability to hover is, IMO a big myth. Its your skills that enable you to do those things.

 

[Matthew]

See, the problem with this mode of thinking is the automatic assumption that bp/wings are "high tech," or "have lots of features," are "high end," or something along those lines.

BP/wings are very simple BC's that have a very limited number of features compared to even the most basic jacket BC. They're a little more expensive than a basic jacket BC because there are relatively few of them produced. However, IMO, and in the opinion of many others, they are simply a better choice for even the most basic recreational diver... not because it's more high tech or high end, but because it simply works better.

There are no special "balance" issues to "work out" with a bp/wing that aren't present with a jacket BC. There are no "technical skills" required that are not required with a jacket BC. An unthinking diver can toss on a bp/wing right off the shelf and go diving just as easily and simply as with a jacket BC, the only difference being they used a jacket BC in class so it might take a minute for them to get it.

Yes they are simple BC's but adjustments are a lot more complicated (but with the reward of much better fit). Also donning and doffing in the water takes a little practice, which is necessary because of the type of boats we use here, where you have to remove the rig befor climbing aboard. Not impossible for new divers to learn, but definitely takes extra effort from both the student and instructor.

I believe that under certain limited conditions (shallow, good vis, easy warm water reef dives less than an hour) a bp/wing would have minimal, if any advantages, over an inexpensive but well fitting jacket bc.

 

[Don Burke]

No one mentioned anything about disadvantages of a back plate wing BC. I'm considering the xchangeover but my brother who tested this type told me he was always being forced into the horizontal position and I know from previous experience that on the surface (with a Dive Rite) that one was always being pushed face forward. Has this tendency been dealt with?

I just keep all of the weight on my belt in the small of my back. I was all set to fabricate a custom weight, but standard weights worked out fine.