Bad attitudes about solo diving are still prevalent

[lowviz]

At a local underwater park, no solo diving is allowed.

Same nonsense on this coast. There is only one quarry that I actually like, Willow Springs in PA. It was a fishing, swimming, dive park. It seems that the fishermen didn't abide by their generous take rules so they closed fishing. The fish are still there, if you can deal with green water, the place is so interesting.

No solo. I tried everything, every sort of waiver or cert. Nope. Lawers...

 

[stretchthepenn]

Can you support the statement that buddy swimming is definitely a good idea? I mean, other than just that people and agencies say it is, but with peer reviewed studies and numbers?

Yes. There are more, I'm sure, but these ones are the easiest to find, and since it's about 3:30 a.m., I need to go to bed.

Bierens, J. & Scapigliati, A. (2014). Drowning in swimming pools. Microchemical Journal, 113, 53-58. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.microc.2013.10.003

Chan, J. S.-E., Ng, M. X. R., & Ng, Y. Y. (2018). Drowning in swimming pools: clinical features and safety recommendations based on a study of descriptive records by emergency medical services attending to 995 calls. Singapore Medical Journal, 59(1), 44–49. https://doi-org.proxy.kennesaw.edu/10.11622/smedj.2017021

Drownings in Recreational Water Settings. (2006). MMWR: Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report, 55(20), 566.

Nonfatal and Fatal Drownings in Recreational Water Settings—United States, 2001-2002. JAMA.2004;292(2):164–166. doi:10.1001/jama.292.2.164

 

[almostDIR]

one extremely annoying thing is buddies which don't keep good buddy contact especially in low vis so they will go out of sight all the time and you have to look for them for a good moment just to find out that they were actually floating 4 meters DIRECTLY ABOVE YOU in 3 meter visibility

light communication can help this A LOT if
- they own a light in first place
- know how to communicate with it, at least a little bit
- understand why it is important to communicate with lights especially if not swimming on same level

.... but in those situations it would be much less stressful to just solo and not being worried about other person's health all the time and looking for them every couple of minutes

they didn't teach light communication or line deploying or dsmb shooting in OW course, I think they would be a must for every diver. And diving lights mandatory by law for every diver here

AND solo diving should be a mandatory part of normal diving courses just to make sure that ALL the divers can handle situations by themselves if necessary and not just rely on that their air carrying instabuddy will always be around WHEN they don't pay attention and run out of air

 

[TrimixToo]

Yes. There are more, I'm sure, but these ones are the easiest to find, and since it's about 3:30 a.m., I need to go to bed.

Bierens, J. & Scapigliati, A. (2014). Drowning in swimming pools. Microchemical Journal, 113, 53-58. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.microc.2013.10.003

Chan, J. S.-E., Ng, M. X. R., & Ng, Y. Y. (2018). Drowning in swimming pools: clinical features and safety recommendations based on a study of descriptive records by emergency medical services attending to 995 calls. Singapore Medical Journal, 59(1), 44–49. https://doi-org.proxy.kennesaw.edu/10.11622/smedj.2017021

Drownings in Recreational Water Settings. (2006). MMWR: Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report, 55(20), 566.

Nonfatal and Fatal Drownings in Recreational Water Settings—United States, 2001-2002. JAMA.2004;292(2):164–166. doi:10.1001/jama.292.2.164

Logins I do not have are in front of all of these except the last. The last one does not support the conclusion that buddy swimming is safer; like the other material I have been able to find, it is asserted without proof. What I am looking for is a valid comparison of outcomes. What are the mortality rates per swim for swimming with or without a buddy? Is the buddy pair actually safer than a single swimmer, or are buddy saves outweighed by double fatalities resulting from rescue attempts?

Without having proof either, my opinion is that because successes are not counted, we do not have these numbers for swimmers just as we do not have them for divers. I am perfectly willing to have my mind changed by data, and to swim and dive less often alone and more often with a buddy or team if data emerges. But when I poke at it what I have always found to date is assertions without data. That last paper is another example. The guidelines included on p. 165 (PDF p. 2 at the link you provided) are adapted from safeusa.org, but the referenced website appears to have evaporated, so I cannot even try to trace the source of the "never swim alone" recommendation.

 

[Christopher Griffin]

one extremely annoying thing is buddies which don't keep good buddy contact especially in low vis so they will go out of sight all the time and you have to look for them for a good moment just to find out that they were actually floating 4 meters DIRECTLY ABOVE YOU in 3 meter visibility

light communication can help this A LOT if
- they own a light in first place
- know how to communicate with it, at least a little bit
- understand why it is important to communicate with lights especially if not swimming on same level

.... but in those situations it would be much less stressful to just solo and not being worried about other person's health all the time and looking for them every couple of minutes

they didn't teach light communication or line deploying or dsmb shooting in OW course, I think they would be a must for every diver. And diving lights mandatory by law for every diver here

AND solo diving should be a mandatory part of normal diving courses just to make sure that ALL the divers can handle situations by themselves if necessary and not just rely on that their air carrying instabuddy will always be around WHEN they don't pay attention and run out of air

I quit agree self sufficient diving should be a part of all OW courses, and also a good chunk of diver physiology. Diving agencies should be listening to the Divers out there not the businesses, but unfortunately the recreational diving industry is big business. Lets not forget most of these agencies (Businesses) were started back in the late 60's by diving instructors, with no more reason but to make money, so if you break diving skills down as much as possible you end up with more courses to sell.
as I have stated before there is no law that can be backed up with empirical data that solo diving is anymore dangerous than buddy diving, quite the opposite. You need to fight for your right to undertake the dive the way you are most comfortable, and stop letting businesses dictate the change of laws in your countries, as this has very little to do with safety, but rather profit.

 

[tursiops]

Lets not forget most of these agencies (Businesses) were started back in the late 60's by diving instructors, with no more reason but to make money, so if you break diving skills down as much as possible you end up with more courses to sell.

LOL.This is quite an (unjustified) assertion, and the rest of your grumpiness seems to follow from it.

 

[almostDIR]

I think most of the people would never take a OW course in the first place if it would be well over 10 - 14 days training and cost over 2000 bucks like I think it should be to learn all the needed skills for avoiding the most potential accidents and getting better buoyancy skills and learning the needed extra skills (when I said the basic OW should be the ow, aowd, rescue and at least some specialities combined).

Someone called the ow training places "new diver factories" which is exactly what they are meant to be... to get more divers certified so that they would buy more gear from the shop they got the courses from.
Gear selling is the key for them I think, the padi training does not seem to be that good a business by itself at least where I live. Some instructors are doing it for pastime fun though wanting to help new divers rather than owning a dive shop which needs customers. But the courses themselves don't seem to be that good a business, most places are just trying to get more customer base by training more eager divers needing their first mask and fins and regs etc.

 

[Christopher Griffin]

Its not grumpiness, or unjustified. We live in a society that wants what it gets, and not gets what it wants. We are happy to follow on like good little sheep avoiding the difficult decisions, which in turn allows business to make those decisions for you, but you need to stop and ask yourself, is that decision right for the majority or merely profitable for the minority. Law in a social context is a tricky subject, but most laws introduced by business servers only to be profitable for business, and little else.

So getting back on topic, if you could tell us all why it would be so unjustified to teach new divers that being able to spot physiological warning signs early, and to teach self reliance and rescue when diving at the outset, I am sure we would all very interested.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

I tend to think it is misinformation combining with 'oh no, they are going to die' thoughts that excite people into a hostile response to those who enjoy solo diving.

The buddy system or 'team diving' seems to be drilled into the core fabric of basic dive instruction and in an effort to keep divers clumped together in manageable groups I think the dangers of being alone underwater are heavily overstated without providing the option of ways to mitigate the risks.

Out of air - use your buddy
Lost mask - use your buddy
Cramp - use your buddy
Boyancy loss - use your buddy
Entangled - use your buddy
Lost - use your buddy
Putting ON scuba gear - use your buddy
Predive safety checks - use your buddy
Bubble checks - use your buddy
Medical emergency - use your buddy
Disoriented - use your buddy
Dive planning - use your buddy.
Etc.

Now you meet someone who says 'I don't use a buddy'... Wow they are going to die.

So much of your training to be 'safe' as a diver is buddy based... Remove that buddy base and a diver is not a safe diver without building a new foundation:

Solo redundancies, self reliance and independent competencies.

Too often I think solo diving is practiced and presented as diving missing a buddy.

But, I think it is ironic that several of these items either cannot be mitigated at all without a buddy, or mitigated only with difficulty, and possibly not effectively:

Cramp (potentially difficult to mitigate)
Entangled (potentially difficult to mitigate)
Lost (more difficult to mitigate--a buddy also navigating can eliminate)
Bubble checks (impossible)
Medical emergency (impossible)
Disoriented (impossible if medical, otherwise a sign of incipient panic and a buddy can help greatly).

So, this list is as much an advertisement for buddy diving as it is a manifesto for solo diving.

The other items--yes, solo training and proper gear can make a buddy unnecessary for these.

But, bottom line, you are more at risk solo diving. This should always be clearly understood.

But, I most definitely agree that people who are equipped and properly trained should be not be barred from solo diving. Showing "the card" might be the only to demonstrate to an operator that you are, if you depend on operators to reach your dive sites.

 

[almostDIR]

yes, but....
I think one of the most dangerous things would be to always trust your buddy on emergencies and being dependent on them.

For a self sufficient diver the self sufficient buddy would be added extra safety.
For a diver dependent on his/her buddy the buddy system gives false sense of security and it is a great risk factor by my opinion if anything extraordinary happens during the dive.
A solo diver would at least be prepared for handling emergencies by him/herself and not be absolutely screwed WHEN something happen and the buddy is not immediately next to them. the "buddy dive" changes to 'unprepared solo dive with inadequate equipment' if something like this happens.

that's why I tend to carry the pony bottle with me all the time even when diving with a buddy. If I'm out of air I'm not dependent on them but if I'd black out they would add some security and maybe could assist me back up and to medical care.

most buddies are not enough safety underwater I think. poor equipment and planning and dive practices add to this even more.

I personally trust the buddy system as much as I trust my regulator or diving light... it is nice if it works but one can never trust them 100% in any situation. I personally trust them 0% just to be sure and have multiple backups instead


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