Back Roll Entry Head Injury

[djcheburashka]

The point isn't that the person is at risk of pulmonary expansion injury from an uncontrolled ascent--the point is they aren't in control of their position in the water, and if they're highly positively bouyant on entry they're going to pop-up where they can be hit by the boat or next diver in. As for the depth you hit-how tall are you? Bc if you were fully submerged... Anyway many computers won't start recording or even activate until the activation conditions are met for a few seconds. It's not instant-on. And I've done quite a few back entries, thank you very much for the suggestion that I try them

 

[T.C.]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were there.

Only an idiot would state that a 175 to 200 pound man (plus all his equipment, weights and tank) dropping approx 4 feet and striking someone directly on the head (with the tank) would not result in a serious injury.. only requiring a few bandaids.

Second- Your comment on lifting her out of the water is equally as idiotic. Do you know how much she weighed (without her gear) ??

And I didn't realize that your knowledge of anatomy and emergency medicine is lacking. And four feet for a dingy? I'm not believing this line.

The potential for a cuncussion exists with this sort of head injury. That's the most serious you're likely to see. But you went on and on about her "skull being cracked open" and the "blood in the water" and "how horrible it was". This bleeding is NOT serious. It looks bad, but that's all. As I said, unless you see grey or white; emergency medicine dictates that you ignore bleeding head wounds- they are not serious. You can put Band-Aids on them after you treat the other injuries.

As for what she weighed; was she really so large that two people couldn't lift her? I can lift a 200 pound person in battle gear with some effort. And it was apparently a struggle to get her back into a dingy? I'm thinking that most of this story is a tad...exaggerated...for dramatic effect.

Sometimes I wonder why I even post to this forum anymore !!!

Nor do we!

 

[djcheburashka]

"Emergency medicine dictates that you ignore bleeding head wounds"?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

"Emergency medicine dictates that you ignore bleeding head wounds"?

Flaming BS dictates that certain members be put on the ignore list..

 

[T.C.]

"Emergency medicine dictates that you ignore bleeding head wounds"?

Yes. You concentrate on really important injuries and ignore superficial wounds like cuts to the head- even though they look really bad and look they they bleed alot.

Someone isn't going to die from a few cuts to the head. They will die from that trivial looking little hole in their chest or small, un-important looking wound that inexperienced people ignore in their rush to fix the worst looking injuries. The exception to this is if you see gray or white- indicating a skull/brain injury. That may warrant immediate treatment, but only if you know how to handle those injuries.

And if you have questions about this, I can refer to the cases I've treated similar to this. Bleeding head wounds just aren't that serious- they look worse than they are. Most likely, the case that azscubadude cited was far less serious than his comments about blood and cracked wide open skulls indicates. Blood is very dramatic for people who haven't seen alot of it before.

Flaming BS dictates that certain members be put on the ignore list..

Yes...It's a miracle the board hasn't ignored you completely by now with the amount of it that you leave around here.

 

[Troy G.]

Light Grunt Crossed trained as a Medic...good advice. God forbid one doesn't encounter a "cracked wide open skull. Most civilians would pass out if presented with such an encounter.

 

[KevinG58]

Look as best you can before backrolling. But be aware your field of vision is restricted by your mask and how far you can turn your head which does vary. I listen to the crews commands still but maintain awareness, is everyone near me rolling? Did the captain or DM say Stop! Did I not roll? It just doesn't feel right. Any of these, hold and reset until all clear. I'll get in eventually.

When I role I try to lean a little away from the diver nearest to me, taking care that this doesn't place me in another divers path.
After splash no matter how deep or not my movement is initially away from the boat. After the splashing has stopped I come back to the boat for my camera.

My only trip to Coz the current line was partially deployed before splashing, so anyone could hang out before coming to the boat for their camera or whatever, I used it a couple of times out of 14 dives the rest I was able to fin back for the camera.

 

[Edward3c]

There are dive locations where if you don't follow the skipper/crew instructions for entering the water you don't dive. Because the window of opportunity is too small for each diver to do their own thing. Dropping in just 5 seconds late means you miss the shot. Slack is too short for the boat to go round for another go.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I can not devise the system I would use until I understand the situation. What does the DM have to do with this entry? Why can't the captain not use his GPS, knowledge of the wind drift and determine the velocity of the surface current? How deep and how long does the DM have to dive to determine the velocity profile in the water column? I have dropped people off boats in currents MUCH stronger than cozumel many hundreds of times..

I have already given precise description of the method I prefer to use, but it does not involve a DM entering the water before hand.

So... WHAT does the DM have to do on their special Cozumel dives?? I never got an answer??

 

[Okie Mike]

This is ridiculous... The responsibility for this is 99% with the diver and 1% with the boat, and that only for allowing the diver to go in the first place.

1 - that the diver's "hat" and mask kept coming off on the entry demonstrates a significant misconfiguration issue that the diver was allowing to persist, apparently (from the tone of the post) because he didn't know to fix it.

2 - the diver shouldn't have been on the surface to be hit anyway. A back entry is a negative bouyancy entry and recovery and normalization should be at around 10'. Staying on the surface, or surfacing after the entry, poses a risk to other divers and to the diver himself.

3 - this has nothing to do with diver size. I am not large and I'm no olympian athlete. I've done back entries in singles, doubles, doubles with stages, sidemount, with and without a scooter. I've gone with divers as short as 5'1" on back entry dives.

4 - there isn't a need for some kind of more formalized, more controlled entry system. A back entry is *not* a difficult diving skill. It's a standard taught, basic, entry level skill. People either know how to do a back entry or they don't. If the OP had done his back entry properly then the accident wouldn't have occurred. We don't need DM's and boat captains standing over and watching every second of the dive -- that would be annoying, demeaning, detract from the dive, and be unproductive since the DM can't watch everybody at once anyway and if they're paying attention to this then they're not watching some other diver get into trouble.

5 - DM's and boats do not "ensure safety." DMs and boats have particular responsibilities, like making sure divers don't get chopped up by the propeller and leading the dive.

6 - unless there are *very* significant waves, someone who is physically fit enough to be diving at all should not need help staying on the edge of the boat, at least in a single tank. It is not physically hard.

Was my post helpful to the average or beginner diver? If not, I am sorry for wasting your time. If helpful, does the tone of your response encourage or discourage people from sharing similar stories that may be beneficial? I was actually pleasantly surprised by how polite and cordial all the posts had been prior to yours.

Did you read the part where I assumed full responsibility for the accident? Did you read the part where I said I should not have been wearing the hat (it was my 3rd roll with the hat and last day of diving, and it would not have been used again even without this accident)? The hat could have been anything else that served as a distraction. The point is that I allowed myself to become distracted by something and that directly led to my injury. I learned my lesson the hard way and hope to prevent it from happening to someone else. Simply immediately finning away from the boat would have prevented this and allowed for a positive entry.

There was not much of an entry briefing. We were told to signal okay to the captain after entering, which would be hard to do from 10 feet down. On my 4 previous trips to Cozumel, every time by every operator we were told to enter positive, meet up on the surface and then descend together. I am still not even sure now what we were supposed to do on this boat, but that is also my fault for not asking or getting clarification.

If you have all the answers, have nothing left to learn, and can only pass judgment instead of engaging politely in the discussion, perhaps you should not waste your time reading or posting to this forum.