Avila Beach Victim

[Zagnut]

Ganted, I have been playing devil's advocate a little bit, but I think you've misunderstood me... and maybe I've understood you a bit as well.

First of all I never EVER stated that I have a problem with spearfishing. I have been hunting and fishing since I was a little boy and have nothing but respect for those that take their own meat in a fair and sporting fashion, although I detest "canned" hunting and in fact I'm also against baiting an animal (like a deer) with corn for 6 months and then shooting it the from a stand. Why not just tie it off to a tree and beat it to death with a stick?...not much difference if you ask me....no skill involved and no chance for the animal to beat you at your own game.

I don't spearfish only because it's illegal to take gamefish with a speargun in Texas and I don't want to kill it unless I am going to eat it...otherwise you bet I'd spearfish. I'd love to spear my own dinner, but not enough to break the law. I figure those laws are there to protect the animal and I will respect that, so any fish I catch come from the end of my fishing pole... and hey, I'm right there with ya when it comes to PITA types that are all benevelant and such but love a good hamburger or some nice leather sandals just as long as they don't have to dirty their hands with the killing of the animal or whatever.

I was NOT condescending with the repellant comment. Look again, I said I support it..I even said I could support your choice to carry a bang stick, if you choose to.

I guess what I meant was: if its either you or the shark, I want you to live. If you can do that without killing it, fine. If not, I'm alright with that too. I just don't see why you need to drive EVERY shark within a several mile radius away permanately, when the only space you reguire to be shark free is your immediate vicinity and only at the time you are in the water.
I think it's exremely arrogant for humans to think we have the right to destroy nature simply because we are "smart" enough to invent the technology to do so.

I actually liked the idea of an electronic repellant, but only for the immediate areas that require it like a public beach that is marked by buoys...but if you swim outside the buoys...you are fair game.

We don't need to clear out whole regions just so we can do a little surfing....that's what my problem is... irrelevant or not.

 

[zeN||]

Revision accepted haaa...... zeN||

 

[Zagnut]

I said and I will say again. It's incredibly arrogant for humans to think they have the right to alter the whole frickin' ecosystem just so they can feel safer when they surf or spearfish or whatever.

You read my posts and jumped to the conclusion that I'm a Walt Disney loving, shark hugger that abhores the killing of any and all animals...and you were wrong.

I didn't just start hunting and fishing in the last couple of days since you posted to this thread. I've been killing animals to eat for decades...so I guess you see me as:
"hands above people who preach the evils of spearfishing while paying $$$ for a chef to prepare it for me so I can hobnob with the elite crowd"
as well?

Go back through posts and point out where I knocked spearfishing...you can't because I didn't.

What I did knock was the arrogance in thinking that man has the absolute RIGHT to screw up a whole ecosystem so they can eliminate the miniscule chance that they may become prey.

...and I'm still knocking it....that has been my point all along, and still is. Whether you think it's relevant or not.

No revisions here.

 

[PhotoTJ]

zeN|| once bubbled...
Zagnut your post is pretty irrelevant, a shark repellant device should pose no substantial risk to sharks once the biology and the technology is understood, and it is not apples and oranges, you have to be a bit simple to suggest there is no risk in diving/entering the ocean, but people like you condescend to rational divers who want to carry a shark repellant, that unlike shark nets or guns etc. don't harm the creature-it's called living in harmony, a diver can enter the water without that risk, and the shark can swim the wide ocean unharmed, without causing harm to humans, and your statement is rather absurd,

"So, if you want to use a personal shark repellant device or a bang stick to take spearfishing with you and use it to kill a shark that is threatening you specifically, I can live with that" (Zagnut)

zeN

Actually, I think Zagnut wins this one, in his scenario, you are going mano-a-sharko against a single shark that presumably wants to eat you.

Your idea drives them off their feeding grounds. You say they have the whole ocean, but a Great White feeds predominately close to shore, on pinnnipeds. Chase him out to sea and he what? Overcomes millions of years of evolution and eats nothing but mola-mola?

C'mon, your roll the dice, you take your chances.

 

[zeN||]

Zagnut you win nothing, nothing was said about altering a whole eco-system, some of you people have been so slanted by the environmental extremism that you seem to abhor your own species, a repellant system might be used personally for a field diameter of 25 yds, or perhaps a beach area, there is NOTHING unreasonable about this and this will not irrepairably damage the eco-system zeN||

 

[jbichsel]

Zagnut once bubbled...

A Smart@ss answer, I know, and Jeffman, you have some good ideas. I'm just making the point that it's not a microscopic fraction that we humans require. It's more like everything we can conquer, we've got to have...typical human nature. We can't seem to strike a balance and coexist with nature, we have to conquer it, use it up, and throw it away.

Almost, but not quite. Most native tribes throughout the world, tend to coexist with nature, use natural resources but not exploit and/or deplete them.

History has shown that us Western Europeans and decendants thereof, are the encroacher, squanderers, and general idiots that tend to waste everything in our opath for the sake of "progress".

It's about time we check our egos and learn from the native peoples how to use and maintain our natural resources.

We are the ones entering the sharks "living room". I equate it to a burglar entering my house. What would the results be? Would I allow the burglar to put up some kind of barrier in my living room to keep me away from him until he was ready to leave?

Life is not and cannot be 100% safe. Get over it. Life has dangers whether it be getting killed by a shark, run over in the parking lot, slipping in the shower, electrocuted hanging Christmas lights, ..........

People take chances every year going camping where I grew up in Montana with bears. I have been chased and treed by bears twice in my life. I was in their "living room", it was their right to defend it.

We are already in jeopardy of severely upsetting the ecosystem of our oceans. Are we so arrogant that we can without a doubt, know that some sort of electronic mechanism to ward sharks away from beaches, won't have some unforeseen consequences?

Pardon me, but the "experts" are not infallible. The Titanic couldn't sink........

 

[PhotoTJ]

zeN|| once bubbled...
...there is NOTHING unreasonable about this and this will not irrepairably damage the eco-system zeN||

Really? Won't irrepairably damage the eco-system? Marine biologist? Oceanographer? Cause most of the Phd's that I know can't say with 100% certainty that anything won't damage the marine eco-system. The mere presence of us in the water alters marine life behaviours, and a 25 yard electronic screen won't?

Abhor my species? Not quite, but reproduction is a good time, and there are too many people in coastal areas anyway. Think of the occasional shark lunch as "Mother Natures Beach Tax"

Yes, if it's one of my relatives or friends, I'd be upset, but I wouldn't hunt down the shark in question.

:yinyang: For a Zen, you don't seem very Zen.

 

[zeN||]

Photog you seem to be a legend in your own mind, I get that a lot when people are intent on winning an arguement, grow up and avoid that pettiness, I have stated my case clearly for a shark deterrent, if you don't agree fine, you are not the final arbiter of right, nor are you a judge of my 'zeNess' how about sticking to the arguement chum zeN

 

[PhotoTJ]

Sorry 'bout that, my little smilie dodads didn't come up the first time, wasn't meant as a judgment.

Pettiness. Call it what you want, you're right, I don't like to lose. A fight, a bet, an argument, or a debate. My competitive streak is a strength and a weakness.

I'm working on it.

I still say, we enter the food chain when we go in that environment, odds are gonna get a few.

 

[zeN||]

Apology accepted zeN||














(j/k)