Atomic "Safe Second" a good option instead of Octo?

[Landlocked123]

Currently my setup is an HP100 and back mounted Pony. Would like to shed the current Octo and instead use a safe 2nd on the inflator hose. My primary is a long hose. That is what gets donated. Feedback? I heard one of the drawbacks is the difficulty of operating the BCD for buoyancy while breathing which seems very awkward to me. Anyone have any strong feelings either way?

 

[tbone1004]

no... they're terribly awful to breathe from, require a custom inflator hose which means if you have to rent a regulator or bcd for some reason you're screwed, and they don't breathe well.

Add on top of that your pony bottle which should have the octo coming off of it anyway, which means now your pony bottle is being used for all of your inflation needs and will now require an OPV on the first stage due to not having a downstream outlet in the event of IP creep.

Keep the standard setup, long hose and inflator on the backgas bottle, the octo on the pony bottle, and you're good to go

 

[Reku]

I despise them with a burning hatred. I think that they are an abomination to scuba society. It's just one more gimmick. Why not get an identical 2nd to your primary?

Are you just trying to use one less hose?

I used one once and I found it awkward to breath and vent my bcd while venting my drysuit and looking at my computer.

 

[Landlocked123]

I had this feeling all along but wanted to get opinions of other more experienced divers. So here is the reason I was asking. The setup i have works very well for me. Long hose and inflator on HP100 and only 1 octo on the pony on short hose with necklace. I practice S drills all the time. Not a true doubles setup but as close to it as i can get with the pony. Same concept except here is the concern i have started to develop after about 60 dives and a few situations with scary dive buddies i was paired with. If it were for me only I feel what I have works well. That said, in the event of an OOA with dive buddy (whomever that is ..which is part of the problem) I donate the long hose. Now I am on my pony bottle with 19 CF only. Yes i know from 60-70 foot range and No Deco diving plenty of air to get to surface by myself..practice it over and over. Issue is buddy is in panic mode. Has me by the long hose and has access to all my back gas. Now I am on reduced air trying to get buddy to stop freaking out and convince him to make a safe but timely ascent.. Get the picture! I would be under stress also for sure. Sucking down air I am sure and I am not convinced this would give us much time to sort things out. So not sure what the solution is. I really like my setup but it has this critical limitation in my opinion. If I had a true doubles setup I could save 1/2 the back gas for myself.. Now i don't have that option. That was what had prompted me into looking at the safe 2nd. It would be a true secondary way to access the bac kgas. But yes I think I would hate it. So the only other option I can think of is slinging the pony with its own reg and keeping the short secondary on the back gas. How do most divers that Do not sling their ponies work this out?

 

[kelemvor]

Well, I have to admit I've not used the atomic branded safe second. I do own (several now, actually) scubapro Air2's which appear very very similar.

My opinion is obviously different from the other posters here. I have used mine to practice numerous times (every 4 or 5 dives I use it for the last 10-15 minuts of the dive). I find it easy to operate. It breathes very well, maybe not 100% as good as my s600 scubapro second stage, but not too much worse. I use the pull/butt dump more than my power inflator so there wasn't much of a learning curve in surfacing while on the thing. If you don't have either option, surfacing on a safe second might be more difficult. You'd may have to remove it from your mouth for a moment to raise the inflator and dump. The mouthpiece on mine is a little smallish, I keep debating about the value of a regular mouthpiece vs the tradeoff of increasing the regulator's size.

and obviously

You eliminate a hose and an octo from your regulator. This is a real nice way to go for OW diving in my opinion. There are plenty of dives where it's not appropriate, but vacation diving in the ocean? I love mine, and recommend it to anyone who asks.

I assume the atomic will breathe at least as good as the scubapro. Atomic has got a reputation for making excellent products.

 

[tbone1004]

get a bigger pony... 30 or 40cf depending on the depth you're diving. Do the rock bottom gas planning. From experience I know that I need a minimum of 20cf to get up from 100cf with adequate reserve to make me a happy camper. That's a minute at depth, proper ascent rate, a 500psi reserve, and a SAC rate of 1cfm which is about double my normal SAC rate. That means a pony bottle is either 30cf or 40cf minimum for me. With that, I just dive doubles, but that's just me. Not an option for everyone under every situation, but I don't believe in pony bottles smaller than AL30's, and any deeper than 100ft is an AL40 by my book. I'm very conservative, but no one died from carrying too much gas

 

[redacted]

Why do diver who plan and practice tbe use of a redundant gas supply think they must double their SAC?

An integrated octo/inflator will work, if tnat is what you want. But it will be difficult to use it when you eventually switch from a back mounted pony to a slung pony.

They do take a bit of practice so "tried it once" has limited value.

 

[CuzzA]

I don't have much experience to offer a comparison between how well some of the inflator regs work, but I switched to the new AIR2 5th Generation (back mounted pony, necklaced reg) and find it to breath just fine, buoyancy control, not a problem. In fact, works perfect because when I do my ascents I hold it right in front of my face anyway to have a clear view of my wrist computer (AI, so my depth, ascent speed and gas data is right there rather than looking for my SPG). I like the dive/pre dive switch to prevent free flows and perhaps this was the solution to make them breath better.

Honestly, I don't think dealing with any panicked diver is going to be enjoyable regardless of the setup. They can kill you with a long hose and necklaced octo or with an AIR2. I think rather than focusing too much on a proven gear configuration (although some hate it), focus on "who" you're diving with so you don't end up in that situation to begin with.

 

[BoltSnap]

I have been using the Scubapro version, the AIRII, since the late nineties without any of the issues described above. I use a longer primary SS hose, 42", and it will be the one to donate to an OOA diver (it will be under my arm to keep control). I practice with my buddies using this system including ascents.

I am not sure why you are concerned about an "octopus" (of any type) when you are using a pony bottle. I remove my Octo. when I am using a pony.

 

[tbone1004]

Why do diver who plan and practice tbe use of a redundant gas supply think they must double their SAC?

An integrated octo/inflator will work, if tnat is what you want. But it will be difficult to use it when you eventually switch from a back mounted pony to a slung pony.

They do take a bit of practice so "tried it once" has limited value.

because unless you have been in similar situations and know what your SAC rate is during those "Excited" situations, you don't actually know what your SAC rate is going to be? 1cfm makes for easy math and isn't that high compared to most divers in emergency scenarios.