Atomic B1 vs M1 == comfort vs more capability?

[irsubmarine]

I have a rather difficult time deciding whether to get the Atomic B2/Z2 or M1 and was hoping you guys could convince me of either. This will be my first reg set. My big dilemma is that I'm not sure how much I should future proof my gear. I'm a recreational diver who sometimes dreams of technical diving whenever I see some dive documentary or while I was diving the The Bells and Blue Hole in Dahab and the arch was calling from below. I don't intend to start technical diving any time soon. However, my understanding is that a good regulator set will last me at least a decade, if not more. That's a very long time. Maybe I'll try tech diving in 3 years, maybe in 12 years, maybe never... Is this a good reason to get the M1 now? From everything I've been reading I gather that the Z2 is the budget Atomics choice. The B2 is the luxury comfort choice(where I live they're priced very closely in package deals). And the M1 is capable of going beyond rec limits.. I'm assuming the M1 is not really uncomfortable.. so I see B2 as being a more expensive option than the M1 even though it can't do as much as the M1.. or am I missing something here? I'm trying to reason why I should get either and the only benefit of the B2 over M1 I can find is that its lighter and slightly more comfortable.. Surely that tiny bit of extra comfort is not worth more than future proofing a reg that is able to go beyond rec limits? What am I missing here? Seems like the M1 is a no brainer.. but I fear my lack of diving knowledge due to being a beginner might turn around and bite me in the derriere and leave a gaping hole in my overpriced wetsuit..


Please help!

 

[diversteve]

First of all, the current Atomic models (at least in the U.S.) are the B2 and the Z2/3. B1/Z1 have been discontinued for some years. The Z3 is nothing much more than a cosmetic reworking of the Z2 - got that from their rep in a post here. I have a Z1 octo - I bought it in 2004 after it had been available for several years prior. All the current models: Atomic Aquatics Regulator Systems Comparison Chart

To further complicate things Z2/3's are offered in both a 7-port fixed or optional 5-port swivel low pressure 1st stage. It might be the same price for either but is an option your dealer can specify. I have a T2 and find that the 1st stage swivel is useful for hose routing but once it's installed and the hoses are pressurized it's not of much value. The M1/B2 models have the 5 port swivel standard.

Every Atomic breathes Identically. So purely from a performance standpoint there's virtually no difference. The difference is the materials used. An M1 1st stage is made of Monel so it's chemically inert when used with Oxygen mixes of up to 80% when used as a dedicated reg - 50% if non-dedicated (meaning you occasionally use "dirty" air instead of Nitrox) - so more useful for tech diving. The rest of the Atomic line are rated for use with O2 mixes up to 40% - likely since there's probably some Titanium components used.

The entire Atomic line has a 2year/300 dive suggested service interval there's no advantage to buying a better model for that reason.

If it's comfort you desire, the B2 is maybe a better choice because it comes with the 2nd stage comfort swivel standard. I don't think you can buy an M1 with one. IDK how much it matters though. I like having it but had no issues with the B1 I had previously without it.

Lighter is somewhat of a misnomer also. We're talking ounces. Maybe useful if you travel in your carry-on to save arm strain...

M1's also are available with a cave ring on the 2nd stage in case you plan to go that direction. Making it possible to clean while submerged if necessary.

And while I'm confusing you further, have you seen the ST1? It's all Stainless but only good to 40% also. Stainless is slightly more corrosion resistant than any of the others except the all Titanium T3. Harder to work with so about $150 more. All that really does is replace the brass used in the other models 1st stage since there's a slim chance brass will corrode if not maintained properly after exposure to salt water.

Depending on water temperature's where you plan to dive the ST1/M1 all have standard freeze protection - it's a $40 option on the rest of the line. Doubt that's much of an issue in Dahab though...lol

I hope I didn't confuse you more... I'm kind of an Atomic fanboy so I believe this is accurate. You might wait for DEMA to see if Atomic announces anything new. The T3 and Cobalt 2 were announced last year so it's possible...or not. The remaining "1's" have been around for a while...

 

[stuartv]

diversteve, thanks for posting that!

I have been wondering what the differences are between the different Atomics. I had kind of discounted buying a Z2/3 because they are the lowest price, which, in my mind, translated to "budget".

After reading your post and looking at the Atomic comparison chart you linked, it seems much more straightforward now. If you need the max Tech capabilities, get the M1. Otherwise, if .5 - .7 pounds of weight makes that big a difference to you, get the T3. Otherwise, it seems to me the choice is just down to Z2 with no comfort swivel or Z3 with comfort swivel.

I really don't even see why they bother to offer the ST1 or B2.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I used to own a Z2 and it was the best breathing regulator I had ever been on. I tried their higher end models and within 100 feet I could not tell any difference between a Z2 and the top dogs. Z2 did have one short-coming which made me sell it. It was an unsealed piston regulator and was not suitable for cold water diving. Manufacturer told me in writing that this must not be taken below 50 degrees. They recommended sealing the Z2 or recommended the M1 which was their cold water model.

If I was hell bent upon Atomics, I would get the M1 simply to be able to use it in cold-water with my drysuit. Then Atomics really does not have a reputation for a cold water KING and in that price range better cold water regulators become possible.

For tropical diving I would not use anything other than an Atomic. Awesome reg.

 

[stuartv]

But I see that you can buy a Z2 or Z3 that is sealed from the factory?

So wouldn't one of those work for cold water?

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

But I see that you can buy a Z2 or Z3 that is sealed from the factory?

So wouldn't one of those work for cold water?

Yes they should. I asked the sales rep how is a sealed Z3 different from M1 and he said that besides the environmental seal M1 has been given certain upgrades to prevent free flow. These go beyond just just sealing the reg with lube. I do not know how effective these are in ice conditions. Ice-diving community favors sealed diaphram designs like Apeks XTX 50 and Mares Navy 2 etc. They dont like piston regulators. Atomics says that this is because once upon a time it used to be difficult to seal a piston reg that is why diaphram regs became popular with the cold water crowd. Now it is as easy to seal a piston as it is to seal a diaphram so it does not matter. I am no regulator repair technician but that is what I was told. Most of the ice-diving community I have been with still prefers sealed diaphram regs over piston so I went with Apeks XTX 50.

 

[stuartv]

Yes they should. I asked the sales rep how is a sealed Z3 different from M1 and he said that besides the environmental seal M1 has been given certain upgrades to prevent free flow.

If you click the link that diversteve posted, you'll get a chart showing the differences between all the different Atomic regs. They use different materials in them. The M1 has materials that are safe for O2 higher than 40%.

It looks like that is the only difference between the M1 and a sealed Z2 or Z3.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

If you click the link that diversteve posted, you'll get a chart showing the differences between all the different Atomic regs. They use different materials in them. The M1 has materials that are safe for O2 higher than 40%.

It looks like that is the only difference between the M1 and a sealed Z2 or Z3.

I am cutting and pasting the exact reply I received from Atomics. I had wanted to seal my Z2 for ice diving and this is what I got from Atomics headquarter.

Hello:

You are more than welcome to send it back to us. I do have one question for
you.....How cold of water are you planning to dive in? Is it 40-50 degrees or
below the ice in places like Antarctica?

If it is just in cooler temperatures, you could get away with just sealing the
first stage. This costs around $40.00. This will prevent silt, dirt, etc from
getting into the first stage.

IF you are planning on doing some ice diving.....we recommend a few things. The
first is to change the piston from a Stainless Steel piston to a Monel Piston.
They perform better in the real cold water. Also, a heat sink to prevent freeze
up in the second stage. Lastly, sealing the regulator as well.

Two ways to accomplish this......Buy an M1 first stage (It is sealed first
stage, monel piston, plus it has a 5 port swivel bottom). Then a heat sink for
the second stage....Total for this would be $390.00 for first stage and $20.00
for the heat sink.

Second way......Seal the first stage $40.00, add a monel piston $80.00, and heat
sink $20.00.

Both would have a labor charge associated with the service as well. Lastly,
shipping would be the last charge, both back and forth. Thank you so much
...Please let me know if you need anything else.


Kind Regards,

Ryan Kenney
Atomic Aquatics

Dated: 12/20/12

 

[stuartv]

I am cutting and pasting the exact reply I received from Atomics. I had wanted to seal my Z2 for ice diving and this is what I got from Atomics headquarter.


...

Lastly, sealing the regulator as well.
...

Pardon my ignorance but am I correct in thinking that that sentence just means to seal the 1st stage? Or does it mean seal 1st and 2nd? Are 2nd stage regs even something one would seal? Or since they all (apparently) are diaphragm designs, 2nd stages are all already inherently sealed?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

diversteve, thanks for posting that!

I have been wondering what the differences are between the different Atomics. I had kind of discounted buying a Z2/3 because they are the lowest price, which, in my mind, translated to "budget".

After reading your post and looking at the Atomic comparison chart you linked, it seems much more straightforward now. If you need the max Tech capabilities, get the M1. Otherwise, if .5 - .7 pounds of weight makes that big a difference to you, get the T3. Otherwise, it seems to me the choice is just down to Z2 with no comfort swivel or Z3 with comfort swivel.

I really don't even see why they bother to offer the ST1 or B2.

Probably because some of us love the corrosion resistance of SS, don't care about the extra 8oz of weight much less want to spend an extra $1000 over a Z3 to avoid it, and think the brass valve tube used in the M1 and Z2/3 versions isn't all that great compared to a Ti valve tube. The B2 is basically a Z3 first stage with a more corrosion resistant second stage valve tube.

Brass is, however, a hair more O2 friendly (not that it matters on the LP side) and transfers heat much better than Ti...hence its use in the M1. It's used in the Z2/3 because it's a lot cheaper.

Unless you need the ability to use O2 mixes greater than 40%, the M1 is a waste of money. Buy a sealed Z3 and put a $20 heat sink on it, and you have the same performance. If you want a cave ring, you can put one on any AA reg - you just have to use a M1 purge cover, which you should be doing anyway.