At what level (if any) can scuba be self taught?

[cbm32]

It seems that pretty much everyone agrees that most anything and everything can be self taught.

The next questions is, if that is the case, why are there things one MUST take a class for? Why not have every certification available to anyone that can demonstrate the skill? One would still have to pay the person that administers the test/goes along on the dive to observe the skill being used, but that would be far far less time consuming and therefore expensive than taking the classes.

Surely there is at least ONE of the certification agencies that is more interested in giving certs to those that can perform the skill than in simply making money from the classes and/or literature.

Or maybe not.

 

[DevonDiver]

The agencies are for scuba education, not scuba certification. The certifications merely reflect the course of training taken. Those who know the industry well know that a certification isn't any definite measure of competance.

When a dive operation sets limitations on divers, they should use a dual system of assessment - taking into account the diver's training and competance. Many operations don't do that - relying entirely (and inaccurately) on certification alone.

However, it is fair that a dive operation might expect that a diver has completed an appropriate course for the activity that they wish to engage in. In theory, this ensures that the diver has the knowledge and skills to maintain adequate safety for themselves and those around them. With self-training, there is no reliable way to understand exactly what knowledge and skills the diver has attained. It would require a comprehensive, in-water assessment each time..

 

[Insta-Gator]

It seems that pretty much everyone agrees that most anything and everything can be self taught.

The next questions is, if that is the case, why are there things one MUST take a class for? Why not have every certification available to anyone that can demonstrate the skill? One would still have to pay the person that administers the test/goes along on the dive to observe the skill being used, but that would be far far less time consuming and therefore expensive than taking the classes.

Surely there is at least ONE of the certification agencies that is more interested in giving certs to those that can perform the skill than in simply making money from the classes and/or literature.

Or maybe not.

Great idea from the diver's perspective. Terrible idea from an industry perspective. SSI AOW at LDS is $450.00. This consists of four small books to read and two 1-1/2 hour classroom sessions. Scheduling and paying for the requisite check-out dives is additional. :shocked2: Why not sell the books for $24.95, which includes online access to material and requisite on-line testing. At that point you receive a referral certificate you print at home and is stored on-line. Take that to any SSI dive facility in the world, dive your dives to prove the skill and you're done.

There's a fine (financial) balance between doing what's beneficial / safe for the customer and what's beneficial for the industry.

 

[Teamcasa]

It seems that pretty much everyone agrees that most anything and everything can be self taught.

The next questions is, if that is the case, why are there things one MUST take a class for? Why not have every certification available to anyone that can demonstrate the skill? One would still have to pay the person that administers the test/goes along on the dive to observe the skill being used, but that would be far far less time consuming and therefore expensive than taking the classes.

Surely there is at least ONE of the certification agencies that is more interested in giving certs to those that can perform the skill than in simply making money from the classes and/or literature.

Or maybe not.

Certifications are not for your benefit. They provide a method to establish a standard (that seems to always be in flux) for minimum competence so companies and individuals can be relived of a certain level of liability.
Insurance companies (for a fee) are given some way of insuring that only trained divers rent gear, get air fills and take dive trips.

I sure that if you search high and low, you will find some instructors that will certify you (in some specialties) based on you ability to demonstrate that skill.

 

[DevonDiver]

I don't think there is much difference between tuition and assessment in cost terms.

Let's say you want a wreck diver certification. The instructor will need to take you on a number of dives. They'll demonstrate the skills needed to meet certification standards...and you replicate them to show that you can do them. You might have learnt those skills that day from the instructor, or you might have practiced them alone on previous dives... it doesn't matter.

Same number of dives are required, same amount of instructor time required.... same cost.

 

[redacted]

I don't think there is much difference between tuition and assessment in cost terms.

....

Same number of dives are required, same amount of instructor time required.... same cost.

Very dependent on the course you might be taking. For nitrox certification, an instructor is almost totally unnecessary so cost could be drastically reduced. The gas analysis demo could be done with a video covering an array of common analyzers.

I received my AOW cert from SDI in conjunction with my solo diver course based on a review of my diving experience and one dive with an instructor. It cost me an extra $15 for the card.

 

[Insta-Gator]

I don't think there is much difference between tuition and assessment in cost terms.

Let's say you want a wreck diver certification. The instructor will need to take you on a number of dives. They'll demonstrate the skills needed to meet certification standards...and you replicate them to show that you can do them. You might have learnt those skills that day from the instructor, or you might have practiced them alone on previous dives... it doesn't matter.

Same number of dives are required, same amount of instructor time required.... same cost.

Same cost? What's your per-dive rate? How many dives could a person do with an instructor for $450.00 versus sitting in a class room for three hours receiving instruction designed to be understood by the youngest or least capable/experienced person in the room? I'd rather spend $600.00 in the water with a capable instructor than $10.00 to sit in a class room. But then, that's just the way I prefer to learn...practical application.

 

[DevonDiver]

Same cost? What's your per-dive rate? How many dives could a person do with an instructor for $450.00 versus sitting in a class room for three hours receiving instruction designed to be understood by the youngest or least capable/experienced person in the room? I'd rather spend $600.00 in the water with a capable instructor than $10.00 to sit in a class room. But then, that's just the way I prefer to learn...practical application.

That's true... but many certifications require a knowledge comprehension as part of their requirement. The student would still have to pay to sit the exam/reviews, which have to be marked and de-briefed by the instructor.

To get a certification, by assessment or tuition, you'd still be paying for:
1) The dives.
2) The certification card fee.
3) Classroom time for the instructor to mark and review any theory elements.

At best, you'd be saving the cost of a manual. But then again, most agencies insist they you purchase a manual anyway.

 

[2 Big 2 Fail]

For the most part, it's simply vastly more efficient to be instructed. I mean, you can take the classroom portion of OW on-line. That leaves you the pool work, which is done in the pool primarily because it's a convenient place to learn some basic things that are as well done in a pool as anywhere else. And the open water, which pretty much amounts to teaching/testing of the skills test you're talking about. How much longer would it take a prudent person to tiptoe into the skills, trying to put what they had read together with reality, something an instructor can often do for you with a demonstration or a few words. And on your own, you couldn't watch yourself and correct unconscious mistakes. You'd never know you were making them, only that something wasn't working right.

So there you would be, reading and studying (just like the on-line course or the reading you're suppose to be doing for class) and carefully trying to translate that into skills work on your own and fumbling around and wondering if you were getting it right. And they you'd still have to show up and take a written test and demonstrate skills, probably a matter of one afternoon, which is already about one-sixth of an OW course with classroom. Would anyone bother doing it, considering the time they would have to put in on their own to attain the required skill levels? I'll bet you'd find that nearly everyone ended up with the tester having to teach and test the skills, anyway, since I suspect most people would rush their skills learning or would just plain get it wrong in some ways.

There could probably be one of those "Chinese proverbs" about this. "Man who teach himself, have teacher ignorant as pupil."

 

[Selchie in LB]

1st thank you to the OP for a good post and everyone who has responded thus far.

I put learning scuba into three major categories ...

- formal instruction
- mentoring
- practice

Each has its place. Formal instruction gives you the tools to develop your skills. A good mentor will help you learn how to use those tools effectively. And practice helps you develop those skills to the level of a craftsman. How much of each a given individual needs really depends on your learning style. Some folks flourish in a classroom environment. Others learn best by doing. It's really up to you.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I like how you put this Bob. I for one do not like the idea of paying $300+ to get another card in my wallet. The formal instruction should lay the foundation for a diver to build upon. It is critical to understand the basic physics of scuba but that doesn't necessarily require everyone to delve into the theory of Archimedes law of buoyant force. A diver just needs to know that certain items float or don't. Air compresses going down and expands rapidly coming up!

Mentoring is the big key that is missing. I have managed to find and dive with some great mentors. They have given me some invaluable information from their experience. They have shown me things that were overlooked in the classroom experience and/or checkout dives. I listen when experienced divers talk. I read the experienced divers posts here on the board. The biggest failings of the checkout dives that experienced was lack of constructive criticism. "Here's what I saw, you should try this to correct it." That's what the divers I call mentors have done for me.

Practice: How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice. OK old silly adage, but let's rephrase that, "How do you not get bent? Practice." How do you correctly weight yourself? Practice. How do you share air? Practice. If it had not been for the divers I met and reading info here, I would not have given thought to continued practice of the basic skills. As Jim said scuba is not all pretty fish. I for one have learned so much from my mistakes. I just am thankful and hope that the next mistake won't be the one that gets me bent or worse.