Are you armed?

[humanbeing]

Of the people who would *normally* carry a gun on the streets, maybe 3% of them are normal well adjusted individuals.

That's an incredibly ignorant statement, and I fear you will never understand how or why it's ignorant.

 

[humanbeing]

OK, so let's talk about what everybody does with their guns while diving. I just got my concealed carry license a few months ago, and without a dry suit in Massachusetts, I call this the "off season," so I haven't been diving since I got licensed. Do people disarm in the bathroom prior to suiting up, and lock it up in the car? I understand some might be hesitant to answer. I'm just throwing it out there for any suggestions.

 

[Troutmaster]

Last time I checked that was the case. Theft is not an "imminent threat" no matter how you let your imagination run on. This is a rather messy case, exacerbated by the fact that the thief was stealing medical marijuana plants that the shooter had grown (thus possibly "threatening" the shooter's life). It gets weirder and weirder.

Do you think the advice I got was good and that my "solution" is a reasonable and rational one?

I am a law enforcment officer with alot of experiance and some specialized tactical training. The advice you got was not good. Let assume you have a normal sized house, if you shoot someone with a rubber bullet from a 12 ga at the close ranges of a home, you have a pretty good chance of killing them. Rubber bullets, bean bags and foam batton rounds are not "non-lethal" they are "less lethal" that is to say they are less likely to kill you than a live round. They take alot of specialized training to use properly to avoid injury to the bad guy (minor concern) and liability to yourself (major concern).

Very simple, do not shoot a 12ga with any kind of round in it if you do not intend to kill the guy you are aiming at. If deadly force is nessesary, use it, if not, don't.

My personal opinoin is slugs are a bad choice in a house. They over penetrate, go through several walls and into the neighbors house, where they might hit someone or something you did not mean to poke a hole in. Buckshot is better, but still a little much, unless you can get some low velocity tactical buckshot. Since you got the rubber bullets, you must have a good source, so try that. My choice would be #4 or even #6 high velocity shot. It acts just like a slug for the first eight or 10 feet but won't keep going for ever. I have seen alot of contact shots on aggressive animals during drug raids and it is VERY effective. Just my opinion.

Opinion in this post are those of the author and do not reflect the views of any agency or unit of government.

 

[Troutmaster]

It's simple, guys. You can choose to a great extent how much risk you expose yourself to on the streets.

You can't in your house. If someone enters your house you either defend or you are at their mercy.

Defending your "right" to apply lethal force on the streets is (a) abdicating your responsibility to engage your brain and (b) assuming that the street belongs to you, which it does not.

My take on the "street" is that if you can choose to be there and yuo can choose not to. My Kung-fu teacher used to say "the best defense is not being there". He meant "dodge is better than block" but in this sense "avoid is better than attack" applies too.

The problem I see with allowing every Tom, Dick and Harry to carry a gun on the street is that Tom is a neurotic who is prone to panic attacks, Dick beats his wife and drinks too much and Harry has the IQ of a mouse.

Of the people who would *normally* carry a gun on the streets, maybe 3% of them are normal well adjusted individuals.

R..

I have to disagree. I am a cop with a decade of experience. People should be able to go where they please, and beleive me violence can occur anywhere at any time. Do you know how quite the town of Columbine is? In Michigan, you can get a carry permit if you pass a background check including fingerprints, take an approved training course which includes actual shooting and don't have any mental problems. And we have alot of restictions on where you can carry even with a permit. No bars, sports arenas, schools, ect.

I deal with people with carry permits all the time. If they are not normal well adjusted people I get their permit pulled, which is also pretty easy to do. People who are going to commit crimes with a gun don't give a crap how many laws they are breaking. And an individual has a right to chose not to be a victim.

I have plenty of co-workers who are alive because they "normally" carry a gun off duty.

 

[Troutmaster]

OK, so let's talk about what everybody does with their guns while diving. I just got my concealed carry license a few months ago, and without a dry suit in Massachusetts, I call this the "off season," so I haven't been diving since I got licensed. Do people disarm in the bathroom prior to suiting up, and lock it up in the car? I understand some might be hesitant to answer. I'm just throwing it out there for any suggestions.

PM me and I can give you some sugestions.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

OK, so let's talk about what everybody does with their guns while diving. I just got my concealed carry license a few months ago, and without a dry suit in Massachusetts, I call this the "off season," so I haven't been diving since I got licensed. Do people disarm in the bathroom prior to suiting up, and lock it up in the car? I understand some might be hesitant to answer. I'm just throwing it out there for any suggestions.

I will leave valuable belongings in my carry on for the ride to the dive site and secure everything in the trunk. If you have the privacy of a restroom I imagine that would be an alternative.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

A lock box secured to the vehicle is also an easy addition for those of us with trucks. Cable locks run through the grip and out the breach attached to the car frame is also an option. Just keep in mind, if a criminal wants something and they have enough time they will probably get it. You have to weigh your desire to carry 24/7 against the odds of theft while you are away. I would avoid letting anyone know if you are carrying or that you do carry regularly and your means of securing the gun while away.

 

[gypsyjim]

I am a law enforcment officer with alot of experiance and some specialized tactical training. The advice you got was not good. Let assume you have a normal sized house, if you shoot someone with a rubber bullet from a 12 ga at the close ranges of a home, you have a pretty good chance of killing them. Rubber bullets, bean bags and foam batton rounds are not "non-lethal" they are "less lethal" that is to say they are less likely to kill you than a live round. They take alot of specialized training to use properly to avoid injury to the bad guy (minor concern) and liability to yourself (major concern).

Very simple, do not shoot a 12ga with any kind of round in it if you do not intend to kill the guy you are aiming at. If deadly force is nessesary, use it, if not, don't.

My personal opinoin is slugs are a bad choice in a house. They over penetrate, go through several walls and into the neighbors house, where they might hit someone or something you did not mean to poke a hole in. Buckshot is better, but still a little much, unless you can get some low velocity tactical buckshot. Since you got the rubber bullets, you must have a good source, so try that. My choice would be #4 or even #6 high velocity shot. It acts just like a slug for the first eight or 10 feet but won't keep going for ever. I have seen alot of contact shots on aggressive animals during drug raids and it is VERY effective. Just my opinion.

Opinion in this post are those of the author and do not reflect the views of any agency or unit of government.

I can say Amen to that! Years ago I dropped by to visit a pretty wild friend of mine, just in time to accidentally prevent a disaster.

He had been planning on shocking another one of our friends, and had loaded a 12 ga round in his reloading press, with just a wad of tissue (bath or kleenex?) instead of a load of lead, and was intending to greet another one of his "friends", by pretending to shoot him. As I said, this guy was a real wildman.

I got talking with him about his plan, and to show me how harmless his new 12ga "round" was, he pointed at his couch and discharged the weapon. :shocked2:

Blew that wad of "harmless" tissue threw the couch and the sheet rock wall!!!!

At close range anything coming down the barrel of a 12 gauge shotgun is going to be lethal!!!

 

[Atomic_Diver]

Why not just use 000 Buck Shot? The Pattern Is much tighter then any Bird Shot.. For Non leathel Tazers, Mace, and a pair of S&W Handcuffs should keep the offender down untill proper authorites arrive...

 

[Troutmaster]

Why not just use 000 Buck Shot? The Pattern Is much tighter then any Bird Shot.. For Non leathel Tazers, Mace, and a pair of S&W Handcuffs should keep the offender down untill proper authorites arrive...

Buck shot does not pattern tighter than other shot sizes out of the same choke, about 1 inch per foot from a cylinder bore. Buck shot is a very good choice if you get low velocity buckshot. In a house regular buckshot is going to go through the bad guy and may do collateral damage. Trust me on this one, a OO pellet is a 30 caliber projectile and it just has too much energy for use in a house.

However, if your choices are limited to buckshot or a slug, buckshot every time for use in a house.

Tazers are not an option everywhere. In Michigan you can get a license to carry a pistol in public, but you cannot own a tazer even in your home. It is a little bit of an odd law and we are working to get it changed. My experience with tear gas and OC spray is it works better on me than bad guys, but not a bad option if you know how to use it. But in the confines of a house even the tight stream pattern you are going to get exposed, so you better know how you react to it before you need it for real.