Are Finns bad divers? Thread split

[Finn_Diver]

I will ask the Mods that this question be moved to it's own thread. Perhaps to discuss national mindsets in general and their possible relation to accidents.

Please do. It is a very Finnish way of solving difficult problems: denial and moving different opinions out of debate.

 

[BoltSnap]

Please do. It is a very Finnish way of solving difficult problems: denial and moving different opinions out of debate.

In addition to, it seems, attacking others who question the apparent trend. Seems denial and stubbornness is a national trait in Finland.

 

[JohnnyC]

Well if we're going to get all xenophobic about it, let's talk about Russian divers, or Chinese divers........

Are Finns less risk averse than other groups of people? Maybe. I doubt any statistics will show any predisposition though. I'd say anyone is far more likely to have a diving accident by going to Thailand than any amount of Finnish divers going to Norway or Sweden. Just look through the A&I forum. I'd say if anything Finns are underrepresented.

Now, if anyone has any other insight into this accident that doesn't border on a xenophobic reaction to what, 3 incidents that involve Finnish divers, I'd like to hear it.

 

[BoltSnap]

Well if we're going to get all xenophobic about it, let's talk about Russian divers, or Chinese divers........

Are Finns less risk averse than other groups of people? Maybe. I doubt any statistics will show any predisposition though. I'd say anyone is far more likely to have a diving accident by going to Thailand than any amount of Finnish divers going to Norway or Sweden. Just look through the A&I forum. I'd say if anything Finns are underrepresented.

Now, if anyone has any other insight into this accident that doesn't border on a xenophobic reaction to what, 3 incidents that involve Finnish divers, I'd like to hear it.

You need to look at the relative size of the population of Finland vs. the others and then compare.

 

[undrwater]

You need to look at the relative size of the population of Finland vs. the others and then compare.

Then create a new post related to that specific topic if there is a non-xenophobic concern. This thread relates to a specific incident.

I'd be interested in seeing your studied evidence in that thread if you create it.

 

[BoltSnap]

Then create a new post related to that specific topic if there is a non-xenophobic concern. This thread relates to a specific incident.

I'd be interested in seeing your studied evidence in that thread if you create it.

I am not sure where the "xenophobia" is coming from here. Just by questioning the appearance of relatively higher number of dive incidences vs. diver/country population for Finland is "xenophobia"? Interesting.

 

[undrwater]

I am not sure where the "xenophobia" is coming from here. Just by questioning the appearance of relatively higher number of dive incidences vs. diver/country population for Finland is "xenophobia"? Interesting.

Perhaps it's a strong word, but the questioning is happening without evidence, and is off topic in this thread. Are you willing to create another?

 

[BoltSnap]

Perhaps it's a strong word, but the questioning is happening without evidence, and is off topic in this thread. Are you willing to create another?

It is "questioning" of an "apparent" phenomenon based on what appears to be a higher rate of incidences of diver fatality/accidents to a specific diver nationality that has a much lower population number than other populations in other countries that have lower number of fatalities. It is a phenomenon that makes some stop, take notice and question it. No conclusions are drawn yet. Some folks, several, from the same country and the neighboring countries claim that the referenced population is known to be more daring and aggressive in diving and maybe cavalier in their observance of safety rules in diving.

I think that this discussion is very relevant to this thread in THIS forum. This is the "Accidents and Incidents" forum where "Accidents and Incidents" are mentioned and discussions follow to analyze what could have happened and why. This isn't the "Passing" (The obituary forum) forum where posts simply announce the passing of a diver and the commentators offer their condolences. It would be inappropriate to discuss and dissect the death of a diver in "Passing" forum but it is most relevant in the "Accidents and Incidents" forum. It is expected to discuss/dissect the accident and look at it from all different prospective even the unthinkable and the not so obvious in the "Accidents and Incidents."

Here is the description shown at the header of the forum:

"Accidents and Incidents
This forum is for the discussion of diving Accidents and Incidents and has Special Rules. Please read the Special Rules at the top of the forum before posting threads or responses. Please post your surprise, indignation and any memorials in the Passings Forum."

And here are the rules for the forum: Special Rules for the Accidents and Incidents Forum

It clearly supports what I said above concerning this forum and the "Passing" forum.

There is no disrespect or any other feelings towards the deceased here, it is merely cold academic observations and attempt to analyze the situation.



"Xenophobia" in this context isn't only "strong word," it is actually totally wrong and irrelevant and grossly out of context.

 

[Storker]

As a Finn, I feel my duty is to ask: Is it just bad luck or is there a deeper psychological / sociological explanation to it?

If you look more into the fatalities, you'll find that two of those three accidents (three of the four fatalities) were within a (AFAIK rather small) group of Finnish divers. The same group has a reputation for being willing to do dives that most other divers won't - like the recovery of two bodies stuck at +100m in the Norwegian cave, a dive that not even some of Britain's most experienced cave divers were willing to do.

This last fatality seems to be a quite different type of incident, with a quite different risk level.

Does that answer your question?

 

[bada3003]

You need to look at the relative size of the population of Finland vs. the others and then compare.

Since we're being picky, it's relative to the total number of (active) divers that a meaningful comparison needs to be carried out.

Although Finland has a small population my understanding is that scuba diving is popular. The opposite is true in China. Shows why social media is not an effective forum to carry out meaningful discussion. Terve!