Are all the brands of tanks the same?

[UWSojourner]

Questions from SeaJay

Are you diving in a wetsuit or drysuit?
Drysuit.

Are you diving water that's colder than 60*?
Yes. 40-50deg

Freshwater or salt?
Both, but 95% salt.

What level of certification are you?
AOW, Nitrox

What sort of diving do you plan to be doing five years from now?
Don't know, but similar probably.

How many times a year do you think you'll be diving?
Probably 50-75 dives plus whatever vacation dives I might get at warm water destinations.

How often do you travel by plane to the dive site? How often do you travel by car to the dive site? Do you have a truck or SUV capable of hauling tanks?
SUV, drive to local sites.

How much boat diving do you plan on doing?
Let's say 50/50, but maybe more boat

How much "on your own" diving will you be doing? How much will be with a dive shop or divemaster?
"On your own"

How far to your local dive shop?
Close by

Are you nitrox certified, or do you plan on being nitrox certified any time soon?
Yes


"If you can answer the questions above, perhaps we can get you pointed in the right direction..."
Point away.

 

[pw1981]

Questions:

Are you diving in a wetsuit or drysuit?

Mostly no suit... but a 5 mil wetsuit is there for when its chilly out.

Are you diving water that's colder than 60*?

Not a chance until I get a dry suit

Freshwater or salt?

A little of both. I am blessed to live in a place with a large number of springs to dive in as well as a nice set of salt dives within 200 miles.

What level of certification are you?

Just finished Rescue Diver

What sort of diving do you plan to be doing five years from now?

Just general recreational diving.

How many times a year do you think you'll be diving?

At least two days a month with 2 or 3 dives per day.

How often do you travel by plane to the dive site? How often do you travel by car to the dive site? Do you have a truck or SUV capable of hauling tanks?

Almost always drive. I have a full size truck with locking fiberglass lid... its "dive capable"

How much boat diving do you plan on doing?

At this point, boat diving is cost prohibitive. But I would say that 25% would be boat dives over the next 5 years.

How much "on your own" diving will you be doing? How much will be with a dive shop or divemaster?

Most of it is "on my own". The dive shops in my area are way too pround of their equipment and of themselves for me to be able to tolerate them. I cannot stand having to bed to pay for things at the counter then listen to the "we are so much better than everyone else" speech over and over again.

How far to your local dive shop?

There are about 30 dive shops within 50 miles.

Are you nitrox certified, or do you plan on being nitrox certified any time soon?

Yes, I am Nitrox certified. Its not something I plan to use a lot but I had the opportunity to take the class for $125 so I did it.

Most people hit their NDL right around the time they are emptying their AL80's.

I have been diving now for a while and my air consumption has drastically improved, but I can still suck an Aluminum 80 down in about 35-40 minutes at 40-50 feet.

My issue isn't NDL, its volume of air available to breathe.

 

[FredT]

I have heard of Luxfer, PST, Faber and a couple others... are they all the same?
Phil

Quick answer: NO

Longer answer:

If buying steels from whatever manufacturer get hot dip galvanized tanks. This eliminates about 99.5% of your future external tank maintenance. (You'll still need to pull the stickers off to do an annual visual.)

As a hint Id' look for used tanks in the 96 to 104 cubic foot size range, or new E7 or E8 PSTs in the 120cubic foot range. The new PSTs are still more than a bit scarce, but the buoyancy, and more importantly the buoyancy distribution, of those tanks are quite good.

Aluminum tanks, especially Luxfer's S80s, tend to be very ass light once they get below half full. If you don't mind either overweighting to handle it, or decompressing standing on your head, they do last about 15 years and tend to be relatively cheap.

As an option if you can find a matched pair of old steel 72s twinning them up will give you better trim, and about 130 cubic feet of breathing gas. Watching for estate and yard sales in Fla can ofen result in getting good tanks for about $50each, and occasionally a set of bands. New bands and a manifold will run you about the same as a new HP steel tank.

FT

 

[SeaJay]

Yep, I agree with FredT. He's very knowledgable about the subject.

Based on what you guys have described, it looks to me like buying your own tanks would be worth it. It seems that you guys have already come to that conclusion, but I did question it because many people dive less than you guys do, and for them it simply doesn't make sense to buy tanks... Renting is better for them.

At any rate, it looks like you two would benefit from the purchase of your own tanks.

UW:

Like FredT recommended, steel 95's and 104's seem to be the tank of choice for drysuit divers because of their tendency not to get "floaty" at the end of the dive. You'll probably find that when using them, you can take quite a bit of weight off of your belt, too, which lightens your load on the surface and gives you more gas than you've gotten before with AL80's.

Another option are Pressed Steel's HP tanks, which are measured using higher internal pressures. The net result is that they give you more gas than AL80's do, aren't quite so "floaty," and are dimensionally smaller on the outside - meaning you get more gas in a smaller tank. These seem to be popular with North Atlantic wreck divers. However, the LP 95's and 104's don't require a high pressure fill to get the volume (not all shops will put 3500+ psi in a tank, for safety reasons) and are more negative in the water, meaning that you can take more weight off of your belt.

In short, I'm with FredT on this one - look into the LP95's and LP104's.

PW:

Your situation is different. Since you aren't diving a drysuit, using LP95's and 104's would probably make you pretty overweighted, even without weights. The real problem with that is that if you had a BC or wing failure, you could end up stuck on the bottom (IF there's a bottom - you said you were diving the ocean!) So... Steer clear of the 95's and 104's.

What I would recommend for you would be to stick to the AL80's... That way, you aren't overweighted, and any weight you do put on your belt will be ditchable in an emergency. The tanks also would not be so heavy that you couldn't swim them up from depth.

Later, when you get a wetsuit (for tropical diving), the AL80's will still work well. If you move into a drysuit, then you can still use AL80's as stages. They make great stage bottles - assuming that you even get into that sort of diving.

For you, PW, I would recommend the Luxfer AL80 called an "S080." They are the standard in the scuba industry, and would be convienient for you because if you needed additional tanks, they'd feel just like your own. They're also inexpensive and easy to find. I think that Leisurepro wants something like $120 each.

One more thing, for both of you: If you still feel that you want more gas, I highly recommend diving doubles. Doubles give you more redundancy because there's two of everything on your back: Two tanks, two second stages, and two first stages. Manifolded doubles give you a level of safety that single tank divers can only envy, especially if you're diving wrecks, caves, or any other overhead environment - including "soft overhead" like decompression diving.

Good luck to you two.

 

[UWSojourner]

Thanks again guys!

 

[medical1]

SeeJay <---How you doing?
I live in the tampabay area and swear by LP PST's or Fabers. I personally have 10 steel tanks (1 set doubled) and 2 AL that I keep as loaners for my friends . LP Steels are easier on your equipment, you can drop some weight off your belt, are easier to actually get "FULL" (2640psi Or higher not that Im suggesting it ) fills if the tanks have the + rating (E series PST are 3442 so your back to HP) & are easier to do partial pressure blending. Just get a Pro valve so you can use a DIN or K connection. I know 3 local shops where you can get some now

 

[SeaJay]

SeeJay <---How you doing?

Doin' well, my friend. How 'bout you?

 

[pw1981]

Just get a Pro valve so you can use a DIN or K connection.

Pardon my equipment ignorance... but is that a tank valve with both a DIN and K connection on it at all times? I have never seen such a gizmo.

I found some PST E7-100's on Memorial Day at Diver's Direct in Orlando... they have a LOAD of them and more on the way. They also had a few of the 120's and a couple of the 80's. I almost bought the little 80 because it was way too cool. I have never seen such a stubby little tank.

But I ended up convincing myself to just buy the E7-100's. It is a tank I have been diving with in both fresh water and salt water and those dives were the most pleasurable dives I have ever had because in fresh I was using NO weight and in salt I cut off a bunch of weight. Now, how to pay for them...

Why are PST's so hard to find? In Tampa/St. Pete most places, especially Diver's Supply, SWAER that the PSTs are on backorder and completely unavailable anywhere and that they only got two of the 50 they ordered - the excuses are endless. Diver's Direct must have had 20 on the floor and he said he had more if I needed them

Quite honestly, after physically going to Diver's Direct, I will gladly drive the hour and a half to get there over any of the shops local to us here in the area. Its what a dive shop should be: clean, well lit, friendly, awesome selection.

 

[medical1]

Why are PST's so hard to find? In Tampa/St. Pete most places, especially Diver's Supply, SWAER that the PSTs are on backorder and completely unavailable anywhere and that they only got two of the 50 they ordered - the excuses are endless. Diver's Direct must have had 20 on the floor and he said he had more if I needed them
QUOTE]

2 local shops that can help you out with steel tanks are Mac's for OMS/Faber tanks & Tackle Shack for PST's (They have the older LP's & E-Series in stock). Not endorsing one over the other but they are local

 

[pw1981]

medical,

Thanks for the tips. Mac's is one of the shops I really cannot stand to go to. They just have a 'better than thou' attitide and they are very proud of their equipment... and charge accordingly. I went in there for a wet suit last winter and told them I wanted a wetsuit but needed a 'budget' one. To me, that means start on the low end of the price scale... they insisted that I buy some $500 Henderson suit... would you call that budget? I went in there for a retractor for my computer (Dacor Darwin) and they swore up and down that the little one would lift it... it wouldn't. They got mad when I brought it back telling me I didn't know how to use it. I've never been back.

Where is Tackle Shack? I am not familiar with that one.