Aqualung Changing with the Times

[mike_s]

Here is the story our our little LDS....

they were an Aqualung dealer... If you wanted a discount on an Aqualung product they sold, all you had to do was ask. (yet they couldn't advertise it as the evil empire of Aqualung would squash them.)...

the other little LDS's that sold Aqualung around couldn't stand it. All the sudden they were having to compete with another shop that was cheaper. Customers would come in and say "the 'other' LDS would give it to them for $100+ less?

what happened? the other LDS's called Aqualung and complained and our LDS that would discount lost their Aqualung dealership.

in the long run..... it was the customer that suffered.....


Ironically, one of the LDS's that whined is having a going out of business sell and lost their Aqualung dealership several months ago...

 

[widget]

in the long run..... it was the customer that suffered.....

Sure, I think its very difficult (if not impossible) to price control any industry indefinately,simply because the end user, who bears the brunt of any price control, will eventually just cut you out.

In good times of course the wheel turns a lot slower, and the process takes a lot longer, but in a tough enviroment like the industry is going through now, the wheel is moving at breakneck speed, and no one can aford to write off any sales to their competitor.

 

[JohnB47]

When I first started diving, in 1969, US Divers sold by mail order, and also was the cheap brand sold by the "other" LDS. At the time, Scubapro seemed to be the best equipment, but it was pricey. Soon, I came to have a love-hate relationship with Scubapro. I still like their regulators, but the prices through the LDS are ridiculous. Recently, I bought one of their titanium regulators online for about 40% less than it would have cost through the LDS. If you do the math, that means that I would have had to pay 66% more to buy it from the LDS!

I would like to support my LDS. I would be happy to pay 10% more to be able to see the equipment in their store before buying it, and to be able to get their expert opinions on it. I might even be willing to pay 15% more, but 66%??? I don't think so.

I just hope that other manufacturers don't start the price fixing that Scubapro and Aqualung do, because that could end up driving lots of LDS's out of business. If you can buy products online for a 40% discount, the LDS's will not be able to compete unless they can also give discounts.

I used to deal with a large LDS in California. They were able to sell most brands (not Scubapro, of course) at a big discount, because they had the volume. I have also dealt with small LDS's that could compete because they had a convenient location, and could get away with charging slightly higher prices. I believe that LDS's have to be able to set their own prices, so that they can get the business. Otherwise, nobody is going to buy from them, and then we are going to have a hard time finding air fills.

 

[DCBC]

Any comments from grumpy old guys who can remember that far back?

I ordered my first mask out of the U.S. Divers mail-order catalog in 1964. I lived in Toronto and no dive shop was there at the time. There was a guy who had a compressor in his garage who was relatively local and who provided the scuba club with gear. I bought my suit the same way. I was 12 and couldn't fit a standard sized suit so I had to get a custom one made; which came to $65 with hood, boots and gloves. The baby powder was extra.

I think it's great that Aqualung (I still want to call them USD) is doing this on-line. There are still several areas not serviced by dive shops (in Canada at least) and this gives people a choice they wouldn't otherwise have.

 

[k ellis]

Hey, apparently Aqua Lung no longer feels that online sales of their scuba gear is a bad thing. After all, THEY have begun to sell their scuba gear online. However, their very large dealer network IS NOT allowed to use this market method to sell THEIR inventory. I guess they are expected to route customers to the Aqua Lung ecommerce website, and accept a store credit to their account as payment for "directing" a customer to the site.

Over and over, we see various companies taking a pretty large move (Aqua Lung selling products online is CERTAINLY a large move), without first defining a plan for success from that move. It seems to me that if any company now decides that selling online is ok, they would unleash the power of their dealer network to sell online. Otherwise, they make a big move without a big expectation of success.

It is obvious that MANY scuba companies simply don't understand how ecommerce works. If they did, they would not be making such big philosophical moves in such ham-handed ways.

IN MY OPINION, there IS a route to online sells success for companies like Aqua Lung, but it will NOT be achieved without an understanding of WHY consumers are attracted to the internet as a shopping alternative.

Oh, and things do change fast. I was kicked out for quoting a price on the phone and offering to ship it to the customer. Now, they are selling direct online with a click and buy website. Oh well.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

I think you misunderstood my point. I too shop online for some things as I sometimes cant afford to pay 60 and 70 dollars or maybe in some cases lots more for equipment when I can buy it and save over 100 dollars online. I do support my LDS and I think highly of them but like anyone else would say money talks. My whole point is for example aqualungs slingshots. I love mine and would not trade them for the world. If I decided to move to some place where the LDS only sold aqualungs competitors products not aqualung then I would not want to have to spend 80 dollars in gas and 8 hours of travel time to pick a pair up if I needed them.

I have been to nameless dive shops where I saw a bcd and asked them how much. They would respond MSRP is say 600 dollars but if I agreed not to say anything they would sale it to me for 500 dollars. I agree price fixing is wrong as it defeats the fundamental underlying purpose for free market. It almost puts it in a communist category.

The industry is hurting though and hurt bad because people still want to dive and enjoy their hobby but money is becoming more scarse. People who once would fork over 600 dollars and never think twice are now on Ebay trying to buy used gear to save any amount possible. The industry needs to realize that people want to negotiate and at least feel they accomplished something by saving 10 20 or more dollars.

 

[PhilEllis]

I just hope that other manufacturers don't start the price fixing that Scubapro and Aqualung do, because that could end up driving lots of LDS's out of business. If you can buy products online for a 40% discount, the LDS's will not be able to compete unless they can also give discounts.

If you are "happy" when scuba wholesale manufacturers do direct online sales of scuba gear, then you will see even LESS price competition than you see now. If you don't like the monopoly of price controls on scuba gear, just wait until the manufacturers that CREATED the price controls are the only sellers.

I applaud when companies allow dealers to use every mechanism to promote and distribute products. This promotes price competition and it allows the dealers to adopt the business model and mark-ups that suit them. The direct-to-the-consumer schemes offered by several manufacturers over the past couple of years are certainly not the route to improved consumer benefits.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[mike_s]

If you are "happy" when scuba wholesale manufacturers do direct online sales of scuba gear, then you will see even LESS price competition than you see now. If you don't like the monopoly of price controls on scuba gear, just wait until the manufacturers that CREATED the price controls are the only sellers.

I agree with this....

when manufacturers start selling direct, dealers feel like they are being 'left out' of the sale. (which they are). so it doesn't make the dealers want to keep ordering more product...

then the manufacturer direct sales sight will offer a special that could be lower than the dealers price. (this will surely piss off the dealers).

The result is that dealers which ordering stock from that manufacturer and then the manufacturer has issues with moving product.

I've seen it several times.. both in the scuba industry and outside in other industries...

 

[k ellis]

If you wish to support your LDS like the bleeding heart charity it seems to be - have at it... you won't get the deduction come tax time. Your just throwing money away. I have to work for my paycheck; too many LDS's seem to exist like its some entitlement, and its your responsibility to fund their hobbies and warm water vacations...


-Tim

I just reread that and though I have nothing bad to say about my LDS I have seen so many that I must agree with you on this comment. It amazes me when I went on vacation to places like Florida they would sale a BCD for example at $500.00 and claim they have to make money in order to stay in buisness yet they have photos on all the walls in their shop of the owner(s) on vacation 12 times a year for 1 week incriments and in places like Fiji, Grand Caymans sunset house and so many other HIGH dollar resorts which require high priced flights to get too.

Tim I must agree that alot of shops I have been too are WAY over priced and though I am no loyal fan to Leisurepro I have to admit in order to save a months pay I have a few times had to buy from them (which I am not regreting nor supporting but just stating) and saved truckloads of money.

I simply try to buy from my LDS when the price is affordable and withing range because I love going face to face with the owner and still shaking hands on a good deal. The owner is very intelligent and very experienced in the diving field. And while he is very upfront about the whole LDS has to survive which I do agree he also is understanding people have a choice to buy from other places and is not the kind of guy to say oh you bought from them get out!!!!

Your right and I am in agreements with money doesnt go on trees and like any buisness will tell you the same goes for the consumer you have to cut corners where you can to survive!

 

[offthewall1]

I guess I still don't get the LP thing? We are an LDS that beats LP prices every day of the year. Any LDS out there can do it.... here is how we do it.

1. We don't associate with businesses like Apeks/Aqualung, Scubapro, Oceanic etc... that force price fixing on their dealers. This has driven countless LDS's out of business in the modern age as they can not compete with the internet sellers. We sell quality brands that are honest about their relationships with LP and other online sellers. The first thing struggling LDS's need to do is cut ties with the mafia.
2. We don't vacation on our customers dime. We pay for our vacations... and we take the commissions we earn from group travel and divide them among our travelers to make trips cheaper for all.
3. We don't follow MAP or MARP pricing. Everything we sell is marked up a very modest 40% - 50%. Example: A BCD cost us $168... we sell it for $235.20, Not the MAP of $399. We blow pricing out of the box. A well run streamlined business can do this and survive and the owner can make a decent living. He won't be a millionaire, but depending on market he/she will make $60K - $80K per year and do something he loves. That's his personal pay... not bad for owning a cool business...
4. We don't force sell anything. We listen to our customers and direct them to the things they need... not what we want them to have. In some cases that means telling them where to get something (not from us.) We routinely send people to a local competitor if there is something they specifically want - that we don't sell. The honesty and integrity in doing so shines through to every customer.

A strong network of shops such as this, along with many other things we do... can squash internet retailers. What it takes is a complete mindset change from the old way to the new - modern way of doing business. Dive shops have never streamlined into the internet era. If they want to survive, they must adapt.

We've been preaching this for the entire 2+ years we've been in existence, growing and thriving even in a down economy. Money doesn't have to grow on tress... but it sure helps if you can spend it like it does... lower prices make money go farther... and that's what we're all about.

Remember, we opened because we felt like you guys. We were a couple of divers with a business background that saw a problem - and we've opened to fix it.

We know we've had a hand in changing the industry... and while there are those of you out there that will deny it - there are just as many of you out there that know it's true. We put the Federal Trade Commission on the case, we've kicked the arrogant bastards out of our store and made sure you all knew what they were doing. Selling direct to LP and lying in the faces of our fellow LDS owners.

This nonsense is crushing the industry more than you know. Many manufacturers are struggling to stay alive. 2010 is not going to be better in this industry, it's going to be flat or worse than 2009. To save the industry there must be change. The change must come from the manufacturers, who must allow competition to thrive in a free market. Eliminate MAP and MARP pricing once and for all... and may the best shops win. They will be the streamlined shops that can operate on lower margins - and advertise their prices! I say, look at Walmart - and you have all the proof you need of that. All LDS and Internet owners should be very happy that the market for Scuba is so niche... and small... because if Walmart decides to foray into Scuba.... it will be the only seller of Scuba in the united States within 5 years... and possibly the only seller in the world.

I have personally contacted Walmart already about a sell through alliance. So far - no reponse... but I'm told this can take a while...

In the meantime... lets go diving... and remember where you can save the most money... isn't always online.

 

[offthewall1]

Here is the story our our little LDS....

they were an Aqualung dealer... If you wanted a discount on an Aqualung product they sold, all you had to do was ask. (yet they couldn't advertise it as the evil empire of Aqualung would squash them.)...

the other little LDS's that sold Aqualung around couldn't stand it. All the sudden they were having to compete with another shop that was cheaper. Customers would come in and say "the 'other' LDS would give it to them for $100+ less?

what happened? the other LDS's called Aqualung and complained and our LDS that would discount lost their Aqualung dealership.

in the long run..... it was the customer that suffered.....


Ironically, one of the LDS's that whined is having a going out of business sell and lost their Aqualung dealership several months ago...

This story should be forwarded on to the Federal Trade Commission - Thanks