AQUALUNG and LEISUREPRO

[Pongo1998]

LDS and manufacturers want to make a profit and earn a living by selling their products and services??? OMG, how dare they? This is totally un-American, let's hang them and burn them alive for their evil and satanic ways.

Plus they invest a ton of money into new products and marketing those products. Look at regs and others that are knock offs made in China. Just because you can get something for a really cheap price doesn't mean it's the same quality or worth that cheap price. What happens when there isn't any companies for people to copy or by cheap grey market stuff from? Then what? A lot of companies and online places offer nothing more than cheap prices and questionable products.

 

[maniago]

LDS and manufacturers want to make a profit and earn a living by selling their products and services??? OMG, how dare they? This is totally un-American, let's hang them and burn them alive for their evil and satanic ways.

I agree! She's a witch!

She's a Witch! - YouTube

 

[Slamfire]

LDS and manufacturers want to make a profit and earn a living by selling their products and services??? OMG, how dare they? This is totally un-American, let's hang them and burn them alive for their evil and satanic ways.

Believe it or not, I do think that the LDS is one of the parties that is also getting the short end of a stick in these dysfunctional relationships we call "scuba industry". It's a hard business to run profitably in these times. It is not a very viable business model. See this post I made earlier today in another thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/sc...ing-we-ok-do-we-need-help-25.html#post6996387

 

[KD8NPB]

I service my own regulators with industrial and generic parts. Most of the parts that you change are orings that are very, VERY cheap (3 to 5 cents are tipical costs). Other generic equivalent parts are easily available from Trident and others for a few dollars ($3 for a high pressure seat is typical). So, even though Aqualung might want end users to think their orings are made from a magical substance and any other oring will just kill you because they violate the integrity of these "life support" highly sophisticated equipment equipment, the truth is that regulators are easy to understand, simple mechanical gadgets that are easy AND CHEAP to service.
I would never buy a dive computer that does not allow the end user to change the battery on his own. That kind of product design boils down to a coercive tactic to keep end users tied down as a continuous revenue stream based on purposefully bad design. When I buy a product, I would like to think that I pay the manufacturer to build it for MY needs. 5 yr limited warranty from Aqualung? I prefer to stick with Shearwater Research and their superb tradition of standing by their products to the benefit of the end user.

Right... ever heard of the phrase "used car salesman"? You go to this character and he will also give you "Professional assistance in determining the right equipment". But whose needs will this right equipment advice serve best?

Thanks, but no. I don't do "trust me dives" and that includes taking personal full accountability for the state of my own equipment.

The heart of the matter is that putting the roles of mentor/instructor together with that of equipment sales person is a conflict of interest that goes directly against the end users.

Congratulations on doing your own service. But you represent the exception, not the norm.

Professional assistance for choosing the right equipment is sometimes required... I'm sure all of us have dealt with that one person who took a Sherwood Brut to 100 ft and wondered why he is breathing through a coffee stirrer.

I don't think I've ever dealt with a shop that says "BUY OUR GEAR"

You can trash on Aqualung all you want, but at the end of the day, only one or two manufacturers come close in terms of inclusive warranty stuff, product quality, innovation, and legacy. Sure, you can buy a cheap product now...but what's the use if the company doesn't exist in 5 years? Another AMF, Teknika, Voit, etc.

 

[kelemvor]

LDS and manufacturers want to make a profit and earn a living by selling their products and services??? OMG, how dare they? This is totally un-American, let's hang them and burn them alive for their evil and satanic ways.

The LDS should be free to do that how it best sees fit. If it wants to go low margin high volume, they should be able to. If they'd prefer to go high margin low volume, again - more power to 'em.

 

[Slamfire]

Plus they invest a ton of money into new products and marketing those products. Look at regs and others that are knock offs made in China. Just because you can get something for a really cheap price doesn't mean it's the same quality or worth that cheap price. What happens when there isn't any companies for people to copy or by cheap grey market stuff from? Then what? A lot of companies and online places offer nothing more than cheap prices and questionable products.

What do you think of Hog diving products? I would be interested in reading your opinions about it. I could give you mine after I read yours.

New products... Regulators are not new. The basic designs have only undergone largely cosmetical changes for the last few decades. I'm happy diving my early 90's scuba pro G250 Graphites. I don't think there are much better regulators than these, but that is just my opinion.

Computers... well, Shearwaters, Liquivisions, Heinrichs Weikamp's have been at the forefront with attractive new products, above the good old boys like AL and SP; again just my opinion.

Bouyancy devices... BP/W vs jackets, do we need to bring up this particularly perennial discussion point yet once again? What about sidemount, or no mount? Have the good old boys innovated these into the scuba market as well?

The old boys don't seem to have been very innovative lately (last few decades). My impression is more that they have been jumping into bandwagons as these threaten to leave them behind.

---------- Post added January 4th, 2014 at 03:19 PM ----------

The LDS should be free to do that how it best sees fit. If it wants to go low margin high volume, they can should be able to. If they'd prefer to go high margin low volume, again - more power to 'em.

So, don't act like we're bashing the LDS when it's really Aqualung (and Scubapro) that deserve the bashing.

Thank you, YES, most definitely. I don't like dealing with LDSs too much, but I do realize that the shoes of an LDS owner are not very comfortable. I would not want to walk in their shoes.

 

[KD8NPB]

The LDS should be free to do that how it best sees fit. If it wants to go low margin high volume, they should be able to. If they'd prefer to go high margin low volume, again - more power to 'em.

The reality of that statement:
Customers will buy online for low margin, high volume, then bring that equipment to their high margin, low volume local dealer for service.

Eventually the local dealer folds. No more dive shop.

That is why MAP exists.

 

[redacted]

The reality of that statement:
Customers will buy online for low margin, high volume, then bring that equipment to their high margin, low volume local dealer for service.

Eventually the local dealer folds. No more dive shop.

That is why MAP exists.

When there is not enough grass, all the cows don't die. Local dealers who can't grow into a low margin, high volume model would have to shrink until the remaining population is a size that can make a living on service, training, gas, and incidentals.

 

[Slamfire]

Congratulations on doing your own service. But you represent the exception, not the norm.

I realize that. Tell me, being the exception, what would it take for me to "legally" service my AL or SP regulators? Would I be forced to become a divemaster, at a minimum, and seek some sort of employment with a dive shop? What if I have no interest in being divemaster or instructor? Give me the option to service them if I want to. If any given day I don't feel like doing it myself I can always pay a professional to do it. But closing all "legal" possibilities to me does not leave a good taste in my mouth. So I do it "illegally" because there is no real law preventing me from doing it and these are my regulators and it is my own life on the line.

The reality of that statement:
Customers will buy online for low margin, high volume, then bring that equipment to their high margin, low volume local dealer for service.

Eventually the local dealer folds. No more dive shop.

It is very hard for any industry to stay afloat when they go against market trends and against their own consumers. Online shops have been here for a realllyyy long time and they are not going anywhere. Unfortunately the little guys caught up in this swim against the current are the first to go, but eventually even the big boys will have to change or drown. SP already deals with leisurepro... I wonder why...

 

[KD8NPB]

I realize that. Tell me, being the exception, what would it take for me to "legally" service my AL or SP regulators? Would I be forced to become a divemaster, at a minimum, and seek some sort of employment with a dive shop? What if I have no interest in being divemaster or instructor? Give me the option to service them if I want to. If any given day I don't feel like doing it myself I can always pay a professional to do it. But closing all "legal" possibilities to me does not leave a good taste in my mouth. So I do it "illegally" because there is no real law preventing me from doing it and these are my regulators and it is my own life on the line.

It is very hard for any industry to stay afloat when they go against market trends and against their own consumers. Online shops have been here for a realllyyy long time and they are not going anywhere. Unfortunately the little guys caught up in this swim against the current are the first to go, but eventually even the big boys will have to change or drown. SP already deals with leisurepro... I wonder why...

The only thing required to get AL parts is to be an Aqualung Dealer.

There's nothing wrong with selling products online.

However, low-margin / high-volume is no way to operate in a niche market.