Apollo Bio-Fin XT for Tech

[AaronR103]

Hey all. I dive with the stiffer apollo XT splits, and have loved them for recreational diving, but have never used them in a really strong current, overhead dive or in any other tech-type dive. Anyone know if they would work well or should I just go ahead and get a pair of Jets? Thanks.

A

 

[tjmills]

Here is an interesting link from Larry at Scubatoys on this question you have. I find this arguement more than amusing from some of the tech divers. I will sit back and just enjoy this one.

I will do my own evaluation as I have a pair on their way to me. Jets are good fins, short and very durable but they are old. Nothing wrong with old though but I would like to see how the Apollo's match up against my Quattros.

Check out this link.

http://scubatoys.com/store/joelarry/splitcurrent.asp

 

[Adobo]

I have nothing against split fins or people who choose to use split fins. Personally though, I think that if their biggest virtue is that they make you go really fast, then I believe that they are the best fins to get if you wanna get from point a to point b as fast as possible.

For me and my measly amount of dives, I've never had the need to get anywhere fast while under water. As far as efficiency goes, it seems like the biggest issues to overcome are proper bouyancy (so I can swim straight instead of swimming diagonally so both move forward and maintain depth) as well as proper trim (so that I present the smallest surface area and therefore become more hydro dynamic). I would think that if my efficiency is not very good then I should address those two things instead of putting a band aid on the issue and using split fins. Perhaps a discussion for a different thread.

Some have said that using paddle style fins have caused some joint or muscle pain. I guess for these folks, they may have little choice.

Specifically around technical and overhead environments...
I am trained in neither so my 2 pennies worth is pretty much worth that. If you are doing any dives which require deco and stage bottles (about the best description I can come up with for tech diving) then it is absolutely necessary for you to be able to maintain position relative to an upline or a teammate. How you do that with split fins is a mystery to me. I can't imagine what it must be like to do back kicks with them. I'm sure those who have learned how to do it will chime in and provide details on how it is done but I think most that teach propulsion techniques like helicopter and back kicks will tell you to stay away from split fins. (Note: I think I'd be willing to pay money to see Scubatoys Larry doing back kicks with his bio-fins )

Overhead environments present similar challanges as technical dives and then some. Now you also need to be mindful of siltouts due to your flutter kick.

So I guess the short version of my answer is, if you wanna go really fast in an open water environment, use your split fins. Everything else, you're probably better off with paddle fins. (Assuming no joint or muscle pains, of course.)

 

[DocWong]

I've owned a set of Apollo XT and found them too stiff for me. Then I got a set of ScubaPro Twin Jets, loved them, easy to kick and fast. Then I got a pair of ScubaPro Jet Fins. While the Jet Fins are not as fast as the Twin Jet (split fins) the extra control and dexterity I get is fabulous! I still have both sets of fins and continue to only dive in the Jet Fins.

Frog kicks, Helicopter turns and finning backwards in exchange for a bit of speed.

Dive well!

Harry (doc) Wongwww.docwong.com
Active Life Medical and Chiropractic Center
President: Northern Caifornia Oceans Foundation
Proj Mgr: Warships to Nurseries

For our project of sink US Navy ships in Northern California:

1. Join Northern California Ships2Reef mail-list by using the link:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorCalShips2Reefs/ or by sending an email to: NorCalShips2Reefs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

2. Forum created for this at: http://www.divingnortherncalifornia.com

 

[scubatoys]

Note: I think I'd be willing to pay money to see Scubatoys Larry doing back kicks with his bio-fins

How much??

The main reason for me using bio's is not speed. They have speed because they are efficient. They are efficient because they require less work to travel the same speed. Less work means I can do what I really dive for... being as lazy as possible.

I will not say that a split fin is better than a piece of plywood stuck on your foot for doing a backup, overhead, helicopter, swampy wampus, inverted, trifecta, half gainer, spin dazzle move while wearing 9 tanks, 3 manifolds, and 2 hoses wrapped around your neck.

I say they make my diving easier and more comfortable when I go to cayman or Cozumel, or palau, or truk... and I want to easily swim around and take pictures of fish. Do I appreciate the extra speed I get... at times yes. It's nice to be able to take off and round up the turtle so he swims right by my group so they can get a picture. It's great to keep up to the giant manta so I can get a video shot of her doing loops...

But the main reason I wear them - less effort, comfortable, less air used when doing fun, easy, recreational dives.

I personally feel (and yes - these are opinions so feel free to disagree), but I feel that stiff jet fins for recreational diving, because they do a better turn in a cave is the equivalent of driving a dually diesel 4 wheel drive on your commute to work and back. No real reason for it. I have a big diesel pickup... I use it to haul my horse trailer - but not to drive back and forth to work.

But some folks just want to be seen in the big truck - so everyone goes "wow! big truck!" Ok fine...

You know it's funny, if someones only experience with scuba was this board, I'm sure they go on their trip and plan on seeing 80% of the divers with BP/W and jet fins and bungied octos. I was just talking to someone the other day on this, and they had a cruise with 2 tank dives in Cozumel, cayman, Belize and roatan. Out of hundreds and hundreds of divers - saw 2 dressed up like that.

If you are going to haul a trailer... get a big diesel. If you are going into a cave, wear the appropriate scuba gear. If you want to do relaxing dives, and yes you can do frog kicks no problem, and be able to move faster, more efficiently, with less effort, and have lower air consumption - all the tests... and my personal opinion will tell you go with bio fins.

 

[boydski]

But the main reason I wear them - less effort, comfortable, less air used when doing fun, easy, recreational dives.

Hi Larry,

I enjoyed your explanation, and thought I'd add another, possibly opposite view. I actually use both types of fins. When on tropical trips, I take both sets of fins. When shooting wide angle shots of Whale Sharks, I wear the split fins, as its about the only way I can keep up with them as they swim effortlessly through the water at 3 knots. When I'm shooting macro, I wear my jet fins as it allows for much more precise control of my trim and position.

I tried for years to learn a backward kick in my split fins, and was unable to do it. When I switched to jet fins, it was easy, and I use a back kick all the time when taking pictures to stop my forward movement or back away slightly to frame a good subject. No need to touch the reef if you've mastered the back kick. I have had several people tell me they can back-kick in split fins (and I'm sure its possible), but I've yet to have anyone demonstrate it to me when asked.

Jet fins are very effecient and comfortable with a much different style of kicking (frog kick) than split fins ( flutter kick ). When diving with recreational divers, I often have to stop and wait for them to catch up, and frequently get comments from them post dive that they are amazed at how efficient and easily I am able to kick and glide through the water (although they do come up with unique names for frog kicks, like sculling).

Split fins do a reasonable frog kick, but are most efficient when doing a moderately fast flutter kick. They sometimes get a bad rap as split-fin divers with poor trim are often seen rototilling the bottom and stirring up the silt. As a photographer, this is most unpleasant occurance. Jet fins promote a different style of kick, and many times I have witnessed divers with horrible silting problems switch to jet fins, and the problem improves dramatically.

So, when asked for a recommendation, I always recommend jet fins, because I'm selfish and l like nice, clear silt-free dive sites!

YMMV

 

[Adobo]

How much??

I think it would be a hoot to see any video of you diving. However, since your company has taken a fair chunk of change out of my pocket already, I am embarrassed to say it but, not much money at all. I don't have much left.

Let's be fair though. The question was around the usage of bio fin in technical and/or overhead environments. I have no idea what the stats are but my guess would be that the ratio of split fins vs. dually diesel 4wd jet fins would be more tilted towards paddle fins, no?

In recreational diving, I haven't found my paddle fins to be deficient in providing forward propulsion. I won't argue the fact that split fins would make me go faster or would require less energy to cover the same amount of distance. However, what I am saying is that I just do not know how one maintains a position relative to another subject unless they can do a back kick. And for me anyway, maintaining position has been far more important (and difficult to learn) than being able to cover an enormous amount of distance.

swampy wampus, inverted, trifecta, half gainer, spin dazzle move while wearing 9 tanks, 3 manifolds, and 2 hoses wrapped around your neck.

I take it back. If you can demonstrate a swampy wampus in any style fin, I'll pay you $10.

 

[scubatoys]

Let's be fair though. The question was around the usage of bio fin in technical and/or overhead environments.

Right you are... See many times I do searches for words to find posts that interest me. I normally don't go through the index... It was after I posted my reply I noticed this was in the Technical Diving Specialities section... And as such, my post is really barking up the wrong tree, as I'm saying in their... for recreational diving, I like Bios.

Excuse the interruption....

 

[eleven]

We dive pretty heavy spring tides down here and this debate is rife amongst me and the guys i work with , which fin is better ? one guy uses bio fins the other twin jets and i use quatros. out of all three i pick the quatros but personally i think it all depends on fitness , the quatros use a lot of energy and air ( im on surface supply so running out of air isnt a problem), the bios and the jets are easier on the legs but you do allot more finning. at the end of the day i think its just personal preference.

 

[cdtgray]

If you are planning on getting involved in dives into overhead environments - particularly if you intend to do so with doubles, stages, a drysuit, etc - I would say to just go ahead and get yourself the jets now. I've used a number of different fins, but have yet to find something that can beat out the maneuverability that the jets provide, especially in tight quarters.