Question Apeks XTX200 vs Aqualung Legend Elite vs Other?

[Itsdavidyang]

I’m an experienced diver looking to move on from my Poseidon Cyklon set. I primarily do deep spearfishing, so something that works well at depth but at the same time doesn’t let me suck out all my air would be best. I think the top of the line are the XTX200 and Legend Elite and from what I understand are essentially the same but the Legend Elite has the automatic closure device (ACD) to protect against accidental splashes. Is there another advantage for either, or is there a third out there that beats both? I know to a degree it’s preference but just asking based on my needs above.

 

[Mobulai]

Almost any regulator can go really deep, and will give you the same amount of air/gas; it's the effort and efficency of delivery

I will assume that you go spearfishing in salt water (sorry I don't know if sweetwater is even an option), so I will avoid mentioning any piston regs; unless you don't mind extensively soaking your regs to clean them (they tend to be unsealed); if you are ok with that we can discuss them.

Aqualung:
ACD sounds amazing in theory -- was tempeted to experiment with it last year when I heared about it from my old OW instructor when I paid him a visit. He literally just throws the entierty of the regs into the dunk bucket without a care, pretty aweosme
I would be a bit.. concerned about it's maintnance and some extremely rare quircks that come along with it, see here:
suscpected ADC failure (nobody is sure what it is even)
Another, confirmed ADC
probably best asking @rsingler for better info on this; I just leared about it like yesterday
I personally find the concept extremely cool; I also know Mares have their version of an ADC if you are set on that feature.

I have tried it for like a couple minutes or so during a dive (we switched our long hoses) and it breathed just fine, but that's also says nothing.

Apeks:
the XTX200 (2nd stage) can come with different 1st stages. If you wanna minimize failure points (extensively) then the DST (with trurret) is not the one for you (it's not really that big of risk - like really really low, but technichally it's still a factor)
Apeks turrets are much more stable and I know of no reported caes where something like old MK20s cracking happened (relatively high occurances)
I like the DST since it's makes hose routing very hassle free; it's also perfect for sidemount.
there is the trusty workhorse DS4; essentially same 1ts stage but no swivel turret, so you get fixed routing for the hoses
The XL4 is just a pretty version of the DS4, with recycled marine plastic.
then come the Tek one, pretty nice routing for double tanks. And then the MTX line (millitary line, higher cold water resitance)

The 2nd stages themselves are quite cool; I would say they are both modern enough but I have little knowledge about their internals.
What I know is; performance wise XTX 40/50/100/200 are all the same (body / case geometry / air flow wise); only cosmetic and addon features (convertible form right to left hose & adjustable cracking pressure knob: This will help you tune the regulator, but if you don't know what you are doing don't mess with it till you understand it's imapct)

So theoretically you can pair the XTX for a cheaper kit for no lost value performace wise if you don't mind the add ons

Given the choice between just these; I would always go with the Apeks (even tho Aqualung owns them).

What configuration do you dive in? 2 2nds connected to a single 1st stage? doubles? Sidemount I can't imagine to work for spearing...
How cold are the waters that you go in?
What are your prefrences on care and maintnance? Are you up for small/tiny but regular tasks or wanna just chuck it aside and not think about it?

In case you are a DIY'er and prefer your right to repair and access freely spare parts, you wanna run away from Scubapro, and almost any other Major diving manufacturer; look into Deep6 and Hog; they are competively priced and encourge users to learn to self service

In case you want something that bullet proof, but don't mind being locked in a dealership / LDS for servie and parts; Scubapro might be for you (APEKS as well but for you in the US it's a bit tougher to get parts -- long lead times).
Note that SP is more of a piston reg. manaufacturer; but they have a couple selaed diaphragm. regs out there.


Let me know your thoughts and we see where to go from here

 

[buddhasummer]

As a set the XTX200 second comes with the FSR first stage. The FSR first stage, other than the Ocea version DS4, is the only Apeks first stage that comes with removable crown.

The XTX50/200 are identical save cosmetics and price. XTX100 has been discontinued.

The Legend first stage is a beast, very big and very heavy.

Performance wise you'd not be able to tell the difference.

Not a big fan of Apeks second stages. They breathe well enough but a couple of design quirks irritate me.

FSR is one of my favourite first stages.

 

[buddhasummer]

"normal" current production second stages it's hard to beat a G260. Very well made, high performing, simple and reliable.

 

[rsingler]

I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND all the enthusiasm for Apeks on this forum. It never stops.

Yes. Any modern regulator will keep you alive at depth. Yes. Most divers can't feel the difference between one reg and another.

But jeez! How many issues do we have to have before the enthusiasm for this brand dries up?
- Apeks/Aqualung financial issues;
- History of unanswered 1st stage seat problems with high oxygen, that may or may not have gone away;
- Repeated diaphragm champagne bubbles at the 1-2 year mark in cold water divers, because Apeks is a metal to metal diaphragm clamp instead of torque to spec;
- Strictly average second stage flow results at high gas flow, implying modest Venturi assist;
- And worst of all (IMO), the second stage cases have inadequate strength. An average gorilla changing his own hoses causes this:

The little inserts are totally inadequate to stabilize the barrel.

And the new MTX-RC is even worse.

I have zero enthusiasm for Apeks and I just don't understand why it's the "go-to reg" for tech divers. I guess if you don't take them apart or put them on the gauges, you might not know. But this stuff is real.

 

[buddhasummer]

I too have zero enthusiasm for their second stages.

 

[buddhasummer]

Although I note that later Legends have now too adopted metal to metal contact.

 

[Itsdavidyang]

Almost any regulator can go really deep, and will give you the same amount of air/gas; it's the effort and efficency of delivery

I will assume that you go spearfishing in salt water (sorry I don't know if sweetwater is even an option), so I will avoid mentioning any piston regs; unless you don't mind extensively soaking your regs to clean them (they tend to be unsealed); if you are ok with that we can discuss them.

Aqualung:
ACD sounds amazing in theory -- was tempeted to experiment with it last year when I heared about it from my old OW instructor when I paid him a visit. He literally just throws the entierty of the regs into the dunk bucket without a care, pretty aweosme
I would be a bit.. concerned about it's maintnance and some extremely rare quircks that come along with it, see here:
suscpected ADC failure (nobody is sure what it is even)
Another, confirmed ADC
probably best asking @rsingler for better info on this; I just leared about it like yesterday
I personally find the concept extremely cool; I also know Mares have their version of an ADC if you are set on that feature.

I have tried it for like a couple minutes or so during a dive (we switched our long hoses) and it breathed just fine, but that's also says nothing.

Apeks:
the XTX200 (2nd stage) can come with different 1st stages. If you wanna minimize failure points (extensively) then the DST (with trurret) is not the one for you (it's not really that big of risk - like really really low, but technichally it's still a factor)
Apeks turrets are much more stable and I know of no reported caes where something like old MK20s cracking happened (relatively high occurances)
I like the DST since it's makes hose routing very hassle free; it's also perfect for sidemount.
there is the trusty workhorse DS4; essentially same 1ts stage but no swivel turret, so you get fixed routing for the hoses
The XL4 is just a pretty version of the DS4, with recycled marine plastic.
then come the Tek one, pretty nice routing for double tanks. And then the MTX line (millitary line, higher cold water resitance)

The 2nd stages themselves are quite cool; I would say they are both modern enough but I have little knowledge about their internals.
What I know is; performance wise XTX 40/50/100/200 are all the same (body / case geometry / air flow wise); only cosmetic and addon features (convertible form right to left hose & adjustable cracking pressure knob: This will help you tune the regulator, but if you don't know what you are doing don't mess with it till you understand it's imapct)

So theoretically you can pair the XTX for a cheaper kit for no lost value performace wise if you don't mind the add ons

Given the choice between just these; I would always go with the Apeks (even tho Aqualung owns them).

What configuration do you dive in? 2 2nds connected to a single 1st stage? doubles? Sidemount I can't imagine to work for spearing...
How cold are the waters that you go in?
What are your prefrences on care and maintnance? Are you up for small/tiny but regular tasks or wanna just chuck it aside and not think about it?

In case you are a DIY'er and prefer your right to repair and access freely spare parts, you wanna run away from Scubapro, and almost any other Major diving manufacturer; look into Deep6 and Hog; they are competively priced and encourge users to learn to self service

In case you want something that bullet proof, but don't mind being locked in a dealership / LDS for servie and parts; Scubapro might be for you (APEKS as well but for you in the US it's a bit tougher to get parts -- long lead times).
Note that SP is more of a piston reg. manaufacturer; but they have a couple selaed diaphragm. regs out there.


Let me know your thoughts and we see where to go from here

Thanks for your comprehensive response. As of now I dive single tank, frequently nitrox, 2 2nds attached to 1st (I’d be open to having my octo as an integrated piece on the BC if people think it’s a good idea, haven’t gotten to the point of reading about it on the forums). I’d be interested in the future of moving to doubles or side mount but haven’t gotten there yet. I’m in the US. I prefer bulletproof, use it and chuck it, only because I’m an extreme DIYer in my regular life (I’m a woodworker and engineer) so I’d like to take the load off as far as scuba goes, but I certainly am capable (I’d like to not buy tools for servicing at the moment, due to cost and the fact that I’m still renting my living space, and moving is such a pain).

I’m open to any brand given the mentioned conditions above and my previous post.

 

[Centrals]

I have been servicing my Apeks for quite a while. Never ever have any issue with the various 2nd stages that I have.
FSR is very good especially with the ARCAP.
DS 4 has been in the market for awful long time.

My tools to service Apeks: couple of C-spanners, Allen key, disposal chop stick, thin jaw adjustable spanner, O2 compatible grease, charged tank, brass dental pick, 1st stage holding tool.
The ultra sound bath has broken several yrs ago and never bother to replace it.

 

[Mobulai]

Just dumping what I learned so far, hopefully I help you reach a decision not confuse you (it’s involuntary due to being on the AuDHD spectrum)

Please also take it all with a grain of salt, I’m not that experienced woth all pf it and mostly parrot things learned from people like @buddhasummer and @rsingler over here

I’d be open to having my octo as an integrated piece on the BC if people think it’s a good idea, haven’t gotten to the point of reading about it on the forums)

It’s not an appreciated idea here (from what I read so far), I also dislike it from an engineering/risk POV.
It certainly adds more maintenance requirements.
think of freeflowing 2nd stages, now merge that with your BC inflator
Also the unconventional octopus will need a lot of practice, so that it’s reflexive in an emergency.

The extent of APEKS 2nds problems is new to me, I was never interested, but I thought it was just unoptimzed case geometry/breathing;
I had been fascinated by APEKS 1sts (to the extent of recommending them), I have one o2 clean DST that I rarely use, I only knew that they had supply chain issues so your reg could be benched for a while; new issues brought above are big deals and would steer me away

I truly dislike the Apple biz model that SP have, that said I recently I got myself a Scubapro MK19/g260 sidemount kit
I dive mainly slaty warm water and an occasional „cold“ dive so it’s overkill, technically and price wise, but it’s bulletproof; even more so it’s predecessor the mk17 (also no turret so even more trustworthy of you don’t „need“ that feature)

Again I also have to do the honorable mentions, and they weren’t my 1st choice just because they are tough to get in the EU:
Deep6 signature (or the DGX variant)
Hog D3
Even if you’re not gonna service yourself, sourcing service kits IS eventually a make or break it
They are of comparable performances and much cheaper. They also support your right to repair, and easily accessible in the US.

Once more everything is gonna breathe more than enough, the question is how long it can keep that up and how easy it breaks down. minimizing risk of failure is zhe #1 prio.

If you got some time, it’s good to know a bit about the internals of the regs, it certainly influenced (some of) my (later) choices

Here’s the start of a beautiful series by the brass @rsingler
Reg geeks 1: mk19
The engineer in you will be satisfied, mine was