Apeks tx 50 O-ring showing

[Scubaroo]

Brian,

I will have to look and post later today - I don't have the reg with me, but will check when I get home.

Ben

 

[Braunbehrens]

brian cooper once bubbled...
Dear Braun,

Up yours....Just when I was going to ring Apeks and have a word with the Technical manager.....

Brian

Jeez, man, take a pill. I've heard from several sources now that they have this same issue with the o-ring, so apparently it's normal. Your continual insisntence that the info you give is FREE simply gets on my nerves. All the info I give is free too, so what? BFD.

Anyway, you need to chill out. Most of the stuff you posted wasn't really related to my problem, and the part you did post about my problem was wrong. Then you make a big deal that it's FREE. Well whopediduda!

 

[brian cooper]

Inspite of your animosity towards me,Please DONT USE your regs if you can see the O-ring....there IS something wrong with them.

Please consider the implications you could be diving trying to breathe 50/50 air and water....

The O-ring should be in the groove in the box and held there by the venturi sleeve which inturn is held in place by
a) the shoulder of the central tube or
b) the plug on the verrry old type (probably not your type).

If you look at the reg from the front the lip of boss on the boxshould be level with the lip of the venturi sleeve AND the larger diameter of the conical chamfer on the chrome tube end.if they are not inlineyou have to find out why...
The venturi sleeve/lever should have about 0.010" end float in it,between the body and the chrome bit, if you squint down the 10 thou gap you can just see the O-ring but it can't get out...

There are a number of possible faults which could cause the symptom:-
Refer to previous "useless "post:
1) the nut on the heat exchanger could be loose (the whole assembly will move side to side) tighten it.
2)the flats on the tube are not located in their ears (highly unlikely as the lever would not be square to the diaphragm)
3)excessive wear on theventuri sleeve where it locates on the shoulder of the tube (replace venturi sleeve/lever bit) What age are these regs and have they been used in sandy conditions?
4)very old type with no chrome bit visible: plug not tightened into position allowing venturi sleeve to have excessive end float. tighten it.
5) very worn O-rings outside and inside venturi sleeve allowing it to wobble and then trap the errant O-ring.

Please check the above and get back to the forum.
How many more people have this problem? Several perhaps but its not normal
Its not right but maybe there is something that needs bringing to the attention of the dealers and ultimately the manufacturers.
If you strip your own regs have you all got the manual to work to?
PM me for a secret location......

I apologise for any feathers ruffled but it could be serious,and I'll promise to stop sticking "no charge" on the bottom if you've had a sence of humour failure

Please accept this in the spirit it's intended

Brian C

 

[Braunbehrens]

Brian, thanks for your message, I appreciate your concern. Let's forget about the whole thing.

As for the regs, I have 4 TX50's, 3 older ones and one newer one. I have the service manuals, and the service kits, and all 3 older ones show the o-ring as in Scubaroo's pic. Note that he mentions that he never even took the reg apart or had it serviced! So it came like that from the factory.

The newer model has a slightly different mold, and you can actually see where the body has a little bit more of a lip to extend over the o-ring.

The assembly of all these regs is pretty simple. There really aren't any parts that could be missing. Once the tube is assembled with the lever, the shuttle, the HP crown and the adjustment knob, there isn't really anything else. It slips in the body of the reg, and the not goes on the other side.

The tube is far enough in, because it

a) can't go any further and
b) everything lines up and
c) is in the exact same position on my newer tx50.

The real crack up is that swapping parts with the newer reg really proves that it's the body of the reg that is different. Putting a tube from the older style in to the newer body shows no o-ring, and putting the newer tube (looks exactly the same) into the older reg does show the o-ring.

As for breathing half water...well, I hope not. The reg is tight, meaning that if you cover the inlet you can not suck any air in.


I will continue to investigate the problem, but I'm pretty much convinced that this is simply a poor design on the part of Apeks. I'll take a look a little later today (if I have time) and see if I can take some photos and give a little more detail on this.

 

[Braunbehrens]

It looks like I'll have to post one pic per message, so here goes.

First, a pic of the old style with o-ring showing.

 

[Braunbehrens]

This is a new tx50, as you can see the o-ring is captured completely. Although some prodding with a dentist pick reveals that there is still a small gap, but not enough to really be able to see the O-ring especially if it's black.

 

[Braunbehrens]

This picture shows that the tube is fully seated. The nut on the end is tight. The O-ring shows with the tube in this position.

 

[Braunbehrens]

I glommed the next to pictures together so you can really see what I'm talking about. I put the same O-ring into the groove on the new style body, and old style body. the new is on the left in the pic, the old on the right.

It's still hard to see, because we are talking about 1 mm difference, but the lip extending over the O-ring in the picture on the left is taller than the one on the right. This is why on the old style the O-ring shows.

I really don't think I've assembled anything wrong, but I'm happy to keep looking into this if anyone feels it's necessary.

 

[Scubaroo]

Wow.

Well I just stripped down my TX50... there *was* a gap behind the o-ring that was showing - once I pulled out the valve spindle assembly, I was able to push the venturi lever back further into the body than where it was when I bought the reg new, and I was able to reinsert the spindle into it's proper position, with the venturi in it's new position, with the o-ring visible only by the tiniest of margins.

The gap behind the o-ring was also chock full of sand(!) - I'm meticulous about cleaning my gear, and that was a shock.

This looks like a manufacturer's assembly issue - the venturi simply wasn't inserted far enough into the body of the regulator - it looks like the reg was assembled with the venturi over the spindle together (rather than installing the venturi followed by the spindle), and the whole venturi/spindle assembly was pushed into the body of the regulator - once the spindle was fully inserted, the venturi was sticking out of the body just enough for the o-ring to be visible, yet function. The venturi o-ring has a very small "shoulder" on it where it was extruded out of the body. I'll reassemble the reg by installing the venturi first, as far in as it will go, and then the spindle, and see if that makes a difference.

I checked all of the points on the potential causes, Brian, and wear or incorrect spindle positioning was out - I think it was just the venturi not being pushed into the body at assembly time. Damn interesting.

Now on to the rebuild... (give me a week or two!).

 

[brian cooper]

That picture (#1) looks like there Is a step between the body lip and the venturi sleeve/lever. ?long tube/short box worn sleeve or loose nut?

I'll phone Apeks's technical manager and see if I an Independant service tech can get an answer, or at least tell them of the concerns of the forum/ you guys.

Question:if you apply physical pressure to the venturi sleeve/lever towards the centre of the box can you push it in and make the O-ring disappear?

The search for knowledge continues....

Best of luck

Brian C