Apeks Black Sapphire 40yr vs Aqualung Legend LUX Supreme

[brad.almony]

Looking at the Aqualung site the difference in cost between an XTX 100 and the XTX 200 is only $45. If your choice is between these two I would go with the 200, as it is Apeks top of the line and has much better resale value. As far as breathing performance goes the second stage matters more than the first stage. I have TX-100 and an ATX-100, and TX-50 / DST. I can't tell the difference between the various first stages. You can save $150 by going with an XTX-50 with a DST. Having both I like the hose routing options of the DST better than the FST.

If your LDS is an Atomic dealer (you mentioned a Cobalt) have you thought of a Z2? It is a great regulator and cheaper (MSRP $409) than your other choices.

Are you the one looking at top of the line gear or is the LDS making these recommendations? One of the most highly rated computers is a Shearwater Petrel, it can take you from a beginning diver to a technical diver and it is $500 cheaper than a cobalt 2. I hope they are giving you a generous discount.

Just to clarify I am the one looking at top of the line gear, My LDS has been very helpful and is not pressuring me into buying anything. Not sure about the generous discount though lol
If I had a crazy big budget I would have probably gotten the Atomic T3 lol

I chose the 100 over the 200 because of the satin finish on everything, performance wise I agree with you that I could have gone with a xtx50 and a DST and wouldn't notice the difference but again I liked the finish on the 100.
My LDS is an Atomic dealer, I haven't looked at the z2 reg I was looking at their b2 reg. I went with the Apek over the atomic because of the free parts if I keep up with the service. (my LDS said that the legend lx and the atomic b2 were on par with each other).

I saw the Shearwater Petrel it seems like a great computer and very similar to the Cobalt, the only thing is that it currently doesn't have integrated air correct?
So I will still need to at least buy a spg to go along with the Petrel which raises the price slightly.
Integrated air was a feature I was looking for in a dive computer although I am unsure how important it really is.

 

[ams511]

Brad, you mentioned in your first post that you are interested in cold water diving. If this is true then your most important purchase is your exposure protection. It is not the most glamorous item of equipment but the most important. Diving is about fun and being cold in the water is no fun. Serious cold water divers use dry suits. With the suit, undergarments and training you are looking at $2,500 or more. Punters like me use 2 piece 7 mil wetsuits which are less expensive but also less effective. However you still need a high-quality well-fitting wetsuit.

There is nothing wrong with the XTX-100, it will breath fine. Be advised the satin finish is no more durable than the shiny finish. As I mentioned I have two of these first stages.

Different models in the Atomic regulator line differ primarily in the components they are made from. They all breath basically the same. I am not sure that special materials make much of a difference because a well-maintained regulator can last a lifetime.

Parts for life is a rather contentious topic on Scubaboard. Some people love it and some people hate it. Parts for life is primarily a selling tool. For Aqualung you need to bring in your regulator every year regardless of whether it is used or not. If you miss it then you are out of the program. Atomic has a recommended two year 300 dive interval, so basically you only need to get it serviced when you want to. So you are trading off the costs of parts for yearly inspections. From what industry professionals say, 70% of divers give up diving after a few years. So Aqualung knows that they are not going to lose anything on parts for life. This also why some posters advised you to wait before buying equipment.

A computer is not necessary for diving. A person can always use the tables or the wheel. A metal SPG with hose is under $100. As you gain experience you will check air less often because your intuition will tell you how much you have left. I have done mostly shore dives where I am not going to have a deco obligation and boat dives where operators are not going to plan dives involving deco. You could always wait for this purchase and see where your diving takes you. The Petrel can do much more than the Cobalt. Many divers prefer their computers wrist mounted.

My advice is to set up a budget and list every item you need and then allocate the money. Also the dive industry mark-up is generally 100% so the wholesale price is about half of retail. If you are dropping several thousand dollars at the shop they should be giving you a good discount.

---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 07:55 AM ----------

One thing I forgot to mention. As Buddha mentioned the XTX-200 has a replaceable orifice while the XTX-100 does not. What this means is that if the orifice ever gets damaged it can be replaced in the XTX-200 giving like-new performance. If it gets damaged in the XTX-100 you need to purchase a new first stage.

 

[Hickdive]

In the event of a damaged HP orifice on an Apeks first stage that does not have a removable one then you only need to replace the first stage body, not the entire first stage.

---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 03:59 PM ----------

Oh, and mark-up 100%?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! If only!

 

[brad.almony]

Brad, you mentioned in your first post that you are interested in cold water diving. If this is true then your most important purchase is your exposure protection. It is not the most glamorous item of equipment but the most important. Diving is about fun and being cold in the water is no fun. Serious cold water divers use dry suits. With the suit, undergarments and training you are looking at $2,500 or more. Punters like me use 2 piece 7 mil wetsuits which are less expensive but also less effective. However you still need a high-quality well-fitting wetsuit.

There is nothing wrong with the XTX-100, it will breath fine. Be advised the satin finish is no more durable than the shiny finish. As I mentioned I have two of these first stages.

Different models in the Atomic regulator line differ primarily in the components they are made from. They all breath basically the same. I am not sure that special materials make much of a difference because a well-maintained regulator can last a lifetime.

Parts for life is a rather contentious topic on Scubaboard. Some people love it and some people hate it. Parts for life is primarily a selling tool. For Aqualung you need to bring in your regulator every year regardless of whether it is used or not. If you miss it then you are out of the program. Atomic has a recommended two year 300 dive interval, so basically you only need to get it serviced when you want to. So you are trading off the costs of parts for yearly inspections. From what industry professionals say, 70% of divers give up diving after a few years. So Aqualung knows that they are not going to lose anything on parts for life. This also why some posters advised you to wait before buying equipment.

A computer is not necessary for diving. A person can always use the tables or the wheel. A metal SPG with hose is under $100. As you gain experience you will check air less often because your intuition will tell you how much you have left. I have done mostly shore dives where I am not going to have a deco obligation and boat dives where operators are not going to plan dives involving deco. You could always wait for this purchase and see where your diving takes you. The Petrel can do much more than the Cobalt. Many divers prefer their computers wrist mounted.

My advice is to set up a budget and list every item you need and then allocate the money. Also the dive industry mark-up is generally 100% so the wholesale price is about half of retail. If you are dropping several thousand dollars at the shop they should be giving you a good discount.

Thanks again ams511 for some great info!

I just prefer the look off the satin finish over the shiny one, I figured that they would both be the same durability.

The only reason I liked the T3 was because it was so light and it was a bonus that it was made of titanium (also why it was so light) but still of course way out of my price range for a reg. It was more just a reference.

Yea I was really debating whether parts for life was really going to make much of a difference or not. Especially because you have to get to inspected every year. Then again if i'm diving with it I would like to know that everything is in perfect condition after all it is your life support. Like you said though a very debatable topic which i would rather not delve into lol

I appreciate the food for though on the dive computers, those are the things that I am the most uncertain on what I am really looking for. Being how expensive of a purchase they are I will more than likely wait till I get my hands on a few different ones to try out. I do like the idea of the a wrist mount over the console style. Do you have the petrel ams511? if so what are your personal opinions on it and of course anyone else that has it or has used it please chime in.

Thanks for the budgeting idea. I do agree as well that when you're spending several thousand dollars you should be getting some type of discount.

 

[ams511]

In the event of a damaged HP orifice on an Apeks first stage that does not have a removable one then you only need to replace the first stage body, not the entire first stage.

---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 03:59 PM ----------

Oh, and mark-up 100%?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! If only!

The body is the main part of the regulator, so yes you are right you can strip some of the parts off it but the body is going to be expensive.

The difference between wholesale and retail in the US is generally 100%. I have noticed when going on UK eBay that Apeks regulators are significantly less expensive in the UK than in the US.

 

[Hickdive]

A replacement body for an Apeks DST (AP1480) costs £22.04 or US$34.15. Hardly a fortune.

I don't stock any products by any manufacturer where my mark-up is 100% and, looking at my trade price brochures for assorted brands, I can't see any where I would get that level of mark-up, even with bulk discounts.

The idea that dive shops make 100% mark-up is, as I say, laughable.

 

[ams511]

A replacement body for an Apeks DST (AP1480) costs £22.04 or US$34.15. Hardly a fortune.

I don't stock any products by any manufacturer where my mark-up is 100% and, looking at my trade price brochures for assorted brands, I can't see any where I would get that level of mark-up, even with bulk discounts.

The idea that dive shops make 100% mark-up is, as I say, laughable.

A few years back I purchased a lot of books from a former instructor. Besides the books there was a folder with price lists from various manufacturers. The markup was in general 100% across the board. So a regulator with a $400 MSRP would be $200 wholesale.

The MSRP of an Apeks XTX-100 in the US is $750. Lucas dive shop in the Netherlands sells the same thing for $500 (Their currency conversion is off). So the margins are there.

I find it hard to believe that a replacement body (part # 11?) is only $35. A DIN adapter is nearly twice as expensive. Do you have a source I can purchase them from? I wouldn't mind having two of the newer versions to replace the annoying 1/2 LP port of the TX/ATX version.

You can laugh all you want but the bottom line is you are in the UK and we are in the US. The market conditions are different.

 

[brad.almony]

This is the same thing that I had my LDS order Apeks XTX100 XTX40 Set, Stage 3 - Apeks Regulators - Diving Regulators - Dive Equipment
after doing a price conversion with the "special" price on google it comes out to about $876 where in the us msrp for the same setup would be $1000.
Having said that if you look at their List price it is over the $1000 mark at about $1045.
I am not sure what if any type of discount my LDS will give me. I know that on some things I get 10% for being a student there but this doesn't apply to everything.
An example is when my dive buddy ordered prescription lenses for her mask she was told that he couldn't do the 10% on those.

My LDS will match or beat any price from a registered AL / Apeks dealer so I will be doing some searching to see if I can find a dealer that is listing it under MSRP.

 

[ams511]

Do you have the petrel ams511? if so what are your personal opinions on it and of course anyone else that has it or has used it please chime in.

No I don't have a petrel, I have Uwatec Aladin Tec something or another, I bought when Leisurepro was selling them off. I rarely use it. You can search here and on the deco stop for reviews of the petrel. You could also post a question on the computer section of this site.

I was certified in 1991. At that time computers were around but not very popular. So I was trained using tables, same thing when I did my nitrox training. Computers are an optional piece of equipment. Divers have been diving longer without them than with them. If you need one for a boat then I would just rent one or purchase a used unit to use until you decide where you want to go with your diving.

---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 11:03 AM ----------

My LDS will match or beat any price from a registered AL / Apeks dealer so I will be doing some searching to see if I can find a dealer that is listing it under MSRP.

In the US a dive shop can only advertise at MAP, Minimum Advertised Price. That is why every dive shop in the US will quote the same price on the website. If they advertise lower then they risk losing their dealership. Usually you only see discount prices for items that are discontinued or the shop is losing the dealership.

Look at this deal the MSRP on this regulator is $850. Leisure Pro is not an authorized Aqualung dealer.

 

[Hickdive]

A few years back I purchased a lot of books from a former instructor. Besides the books there was a folder with price lists from various manufacturers. The markup was in general 100% across the board. So a regulator with a $400 MSRP would be $200 wholesale.

The MSRP of an Apeks XTX-100 in the US is $750. Lucas dive shop in the Netherlands sells the same thing for $500 (Their currency conversion is off). So the margins are there.

I find it hard to believe that a replacement body (part # 11?) is only $35. A DIN adapter is nearly twice as expensive. Do you have a source I can purchase them from? I wouldn't mind having two of the newer versions to replace the annoying 1/2 LP port of the TX/ATX version.

You can laugh all you want but the bottom line is you are in the UK and we are in the US. The market conditions are different.

Prices come from the UK Apeks 2015 trade price list. The SRP of an XTX100 in the UK is £513 or US$796.58.

In the US Aqualung are VERY careful to maintain prices, in the EU and particularly the UK, they couldn't give a toss and I regularly see Apeks products for sale online at prices very, very close to trade. Once again, the idea that anyone in diving retail makes a mark-up of 100% is simply untrue.

If you wanted to replace the turret on a DST for one with all 3/8" ports and no 1/2" one you would need part number AP5103. This doesn't have a SRP as it is a dealer-only part but the cost to the dealer would be under £20. Any Apeks/Aqualung dealer should be able to source the part easily. Whether they will sell it to you for you to install or insist on dealer installation is another matter though.