AOW/Rescue Diver Not Respected

[DustyC]

Again, I seriously doubt the accuracy of this statement. I'm sure it is exactly what you remember and believe, but that does not make it accurate.

Disagreeing is your right. But that doesn't change the fact that is happening. Deep is being skipped entirely, students that question it are being told that they have an exemption from PADI because of the danger of man made, tree filled, lakes in the area.

 

[Damselfish]

It's well known to any dive op that AOW doesn't mean much of anything for sure. Even if you don't have to do a formal checkout dive, it's probably safe to assume they are "profiling" divers they don't know even before they get in the water. It's not so bad if the first dive someplace is just a regular dive where they watch people. Where they quickly decide "this one is fine, keep an eye on that one." If you've just arrived someplace, having the first dive not be to the most advanced site they've got isn't a bad thing anyway. If it bugs you, think of it this way - when shops check out divers, they're protecting you too. If done properly it may mean your dive to that cool advanced site is less likely to get screwed up or cut short by a poor diver, or you don't wind up in a boat or group full of inexperienced divers, or just maybe the chances of some big CF are reduced.

It can be a problem if they take it too far, like when you have to miss the morning boat because you not only need to show them you can kneel on the bottom and clear your mask, but you need to do it at a very specific time in their schedule. (At a very popular place I won't mention the name of, I not only had to do this, but the DM had a problem accepting my doing it hovering rather than kneeling.) I rarely have an issue though. Between research and the places we tend to choose, we seem to mostly avoid situations where they are stupid about it. And my C-card says 1990, which may help sometimes.

 

[Bennno]

Could this be because those shops use the classes more to generate revenue than they do to impart knowledge? Is it because these classes are basically "no fail" classes?

Yes and yes. You can be the worst diver ever and still move up a padi/ssi/etc. Advanced Tec Trimix Sidemount Rebreather whatever Instructor, you just have to PAY and show up.

So, yes, they're all no-fail classes... in martial arts you have get to a certain skill level to get to a higher belt, in climbing you wont be able to climb a certain rout if you're not fit enough, but in Scuba diving it doesn't work like that. You can be 150 lbs overweight and a chain smoker but you can strap on a rebreather and do a 300' cave dive if you are willing and able to foot the bill.

There are good instructors out there but those people far exceed the laughable min standards.

When I used to work at a dive shop full time, it didn't at all matter to me whether the customers had a OWD or a DM card...

 

[boulderjohn]

I've watched it happen with my own eyes.

That was me. Padi knows. Doesn't care

Disagreeing is your right. But that doesn't change the fact that is happening. Deep is being skipped entirely, students that question it are being told that they have an exemption from PADI because of the danger of man made, tree filled, lakes in the area.

I contacted the regional director about what you said, and he said he knew nothing about any shop doing that, and it would not be permitted. I asked you for the name of the shop, and you refused to give it. If you were willing to name the shop, they would deal with it, but since you refuse to do that, they can't do much about it. So it is not true to say PADI knows all about it.

 

[Aguablanco1]

I will agree that check out dives may be necessary in some, possibly a lot, of circumstances so that might not be an issue. I went PADI DM a few years ago and the way I am perceived by most all shops now is totally different. No check outs, no depth limits, it seems to bring almost instant credibility. Is DM the new AOW or RD? While I know it shouldn't be that way it sure seems to me that it is. While I don't actually work as a DM, I took the class for knowledge, it does seem to have some very beneficial perks. I do hate paying PADI $125/year for the privilege which is one or the reasons I am now submitting a crossover application to SDI for DM since the yearly renewal is "only" $55. I sure wish there were more stringent requirements to advance to AOW or RD, it would be better for all in my opinion.
RichH

 

[DustyC]

I contacted the regional director about what you said, and he said he knew nothing about any shop doing that, and it would not be permitted. I asked you for the name of the shop, and you refused to give it. If you were willing to name the shop, they would deal with it, but since you refuse to do that, they can't do much about it. So it is not true to say PADI knows all about it.

PADI has been told. Whether they did anything with the info isn't on me. The shop was named to them. I don't know you from Adam, so no, I'm not going to name them to you.

 

[Bennno]

I do hate paying PADI $125/year for the privilege which is one or the reasons I am now submitting a crossover application to SDI for DM since the yearly renewal is "only" $55.

I told you, you don't have to pay the fee. You're a DM either way.

 

[2airishuman]

I have been an AOW and Rescue Diver for several years now and, aside from the fact that I learned a lot, it seems that those ratings do not get the respect that I feel they deserve from many dive ops I have used in the past. Many dive ops will still require check out dives or even withhold going to certain spots until I have proven myself in their eyes. It seems to me that for many dive ops AOW and RD really mean nothing.

RichH,

There are some good replies upthread.

Could this be because those shops use the classes more to generate revenue than they do to impart knowledge? Is it because these classes are basically "no fail" classes? Is there another reason that I am not aware of?

The reason the certs mean nothing is that dive operators know from experience that there are a substantial number of divers who hold these certs who are not capable divers. How many? 5%? 10%? 25%? Who knows, but enough to pose a problem in more demanding environments.

How did we get there? Well, diving is a skill, and you have to practice it, and like other skills people will forget what they've been taught unless they use the knowledge and the psycho-motor associations -- the hands-on part of the skill -- frequently enough over a period of months. No matter how well these classes are taught and structured, students will not retain the skills without practice. A large number of logged dives is no guarantee that skills are retained, because many dives aren't demanding and some people don't practice their skills.

The quality of instruction is uneven, too, but I no longer think it's the main culprit.

Am I just choosing ops that are wrong for me? I am having a hard time understanding. Maybe I look unsafe and seem to need more attention LOL, though I don't think so. What are your thoughts?
RichH

I shore dive and do whatever I want, no ops involved.

Many people choose one or several ops and develop a multi-year relationship. On a weeklong trip a checkout dive is a minor inconvenience, on a one-day trip it's the whole diving experience.

 

[Neophyte//]

I'm newly certified and I know that there's more that I don't know than I do. Could the training have been better, sure of course, I would have loved a full month of training - but financially I don't see how a dive shop could survive withoutcharging 10 times what they did. I think it's up to the student to continue self-training with more experienced divers after being certified. I'm well beyond the age where I feel the need to prove anything to anyone, I want to dive to see a new world and dive within my rookie limits. If there was ever a sport where you must crawl before you walk, this one is it.

 

[Lorenzoid]

For Rescue to be more respected, it should require re-certification every so many years, much like CPR/First Aid does.

AOW can mean little more than the diver has done five more dives in the company of an instructor. Some instructors teach much more, but they seem to be the exceptions. There is apparently so much latitude as to what is taught ("Fish ID"--really?) that I don't know how anyone could use the card to gauge a diver's skills or knowledge.