AOW before Tech?

[tursiops]

emember that PADI teaches the drysuit buoyancy control with the suit only as a primary method (single tank agency heh) when with large doubles one would rely primarily on the wing or combine the two. So the PADI drysuit method basically does not work on tech and you have to learn both techniques. My personal experience is that with single tanks it MAY be easier to control the suit than the wing if using a large wing where one could "lose the air bubble" more easily when the weights are spot on and thus the amount of balance air is very small. In contrast, drysuit is hell of a difficult to control if you need lots of balance air which is why it does not work well as primary method when consuming lots of air during the dive (full doubles emptied during a single dive etc)

This is only true for noobie drysuit dives. For more advanced and tech (doubles!) diving, PADI removes the suggestion (not requirement) for buoyancy control with the suit.

 

[taimen]

remember that PADI teaches the drysuit buoyancy control with the suit only as a primary method (single tank agency heh) when with large doubles one would rely primarily on the wing or combine the two. So the PADI drysuit method basically does not work on tech and you have to learn both techniques.

Even PADI instructors are not that dogmatic. Started my diving career with a PADI OW course in drysuit, and was taught the DIRish method of using primarily wing for buoyancy control.

 

[almostDIR]

This is only true for noobie drysuit dives. For more advanced and tech (doubles!) diving, PADI removes the suggestion (not requirement) for buoyancy control with the suit.

Yes they will mention it especially if you ask about it. The padi book only mentioned the suit control method so it seems to be up to the instructor to teach about it.

It is pretty common here to do even normal ndl rec diving with doubles (the non tech stuff) so the students will always ask about it i think

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

remember that PADI teaches the drysuit buoyancy control with the suit only as a primary method (single tank agency heh) when with large doubles one would rely primarily on the wing or combine the two.

Even with a balanced rig?

 

[tbone1004]

Drysuit is still not a bad idea. @lowviz has shared that even though he had been drysuit diving on Atlantic wrecks for years, Edd Sorenson still required him to do a drysuit course (with Edd) before he could do SM with Edd.

Interesting...I've never heard of Edd requiring much less teaching a drysuit course. Unless of course someone shows up to a more advanced class who can't perform to the level expected.

first I've heard of that. @lowviz can you elaborate what the deal was there?

To the OP on the AOW subject. If you are doing an ITT/Cavern course with a good instructor, it's not hard to combine AOW into that course so you don't necessarily have to do it separately.
For NAUI we flexibility with the dives, but here's some of them
UW Navigation dive:That is a bit of a joke, but when part of an ITT course can be really easy to combine with some buoyancy/trim/propulsion skills by making the student navigate in blue water without changing depth, or stay a foot off of the bottom while "task loaded" with the compass.
Night Dive: same kind of thing, just conduct one of the intended dives after dark. Can stay in the OW portion of a cavern and since it's combined with the cavern course, you can get used to light signals in the dark, buoyancy/trim/propulsion etc etc.
Deep/simulated Deco dive: Florida caves are deep, not hard to get to 100ft, and/or the more important part is simulated deco which combines back into
Photography: same thing with emphasizing buoyancy/propulsion/trim while task loading. Even if it's a gopro.
Search/Recovery:same as above

Not sure what some of the other agencies actual limits are, but if you feel like you need an AOW card, just ask the instructor to incorporate it into their lesson plan and it should require almost no adjustments to their gameplan

 

[almostDIR]

Even with a balanced rig?

it would be pretty annoying to have 5 or 8 or 10 litres of extra air in the suit at the start of the dive to compensate for the air consumption during a long deep dive. can be done of course but I don't know anyone who would do that if they had the choice to use the wing instead .

for a shallow rec dive with doubles it should be no problem to use the suit only if one would only use the tanks partially so that the weight shift would be smaller ( one of the reasons some of the rec divers here like to have doubles is that they are able to do two normal dives without changing tanks. and the doubles are more stable in water than single tanks)

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

it would be pretty annoying to have 5 or 8 or 10 litres of extra air in the suit at the start of the dive to compensate for the air consumption during a long deep dive. can be done of course but I don't know anyone who would do that if they had the choice to use the wing instead .

for a shallow rec dive with doubles it should be no problem to use the suit only if one would only use the tanks partially so that the weight shift would be smaller ( one of the reasons some of the rec divers here like to have doubles is that they are able to do two normal dives without changing tanks. and the doubles are more stable in water than single tanks)

Don’t you have to displace the equivalent delta weight of the gas between full and almost over empty? That isn’t that much. But I’m a wimp when it comes to cold temperatures and like a little more fluff. Though I prefer using a wing.

 

[lowviz]

first I've heard of that. @lowviz can you elaborate what the deal was there?

Yes, I did show up lacking basic skills for his intro to cave course and to compound the problem I bought a more suitable DS for his course while I was there. Edd dropped his course back to my skill level and strongly suggested that I take the DS course. It was a good way to start getting things back together. I'm pushing 70y/o and unsure if I will ever return to complete his course. He puts the bar pretty high but works very hard to get his students to meet his standards. It was an extremely valuable course overall with respect to progressing my skills.

 

[rgdiver1]

I strongly recommend getting a lot more experience before even considering cave or other tech training. Personally I was certified at the divemaster level and had been diving for several years before I started cave diver training. Don't be in a hurry and get some experience first. The caves will still be there when you're ready.

 

[tbone1004]

@lowviz that makes a lot more sense

I strongly recommend getting a lot more experience before even considering cave or other tech training. Personally I was certified at the divemaster level and had been diving for several years before I started cave diver training. Don't be in a hurry and get some experience first. The caves will still be there when you're ready.

practice makes permanent. Start the perfect practice early.

DM level is 100% useless for diving skills. Theoretically has you experienced in different diving environments, but not necessarily.

If you want to be a cave diver, start the progression early. That should start as intro to tech/fundies as early as you can to make sure you are practicing the right things. When you move into the overhead then becomes a factor of your brain as @PfcAJ said. Could be 18, could be never, but the last thing any technical instructor is going to want to do is break hundreds of dives of bad skills that are now deeply ingrained into muscle memory.